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Cat 950f falls out of second gear?

koecon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
65
Location
Highland Ca.
Occupation
Heavy equipment consultant
The gush of oil durring a shift is normal
as long as it stops after the shift is
complete. Have you checked the suction
screen for debris/metal? Troubleshooting
may be a waste of time.

I agree that you need to test pump/P1
pressure while the problem is active!

Also the neutralizer circuit would effect
all speeds not just second.
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
Thank you for the continued replies guys, I appreciate the continued help. I was working on another machine today as the loader was in use.

Good to know the gushing is normal, i need to rig up a way of running the machine and not making a huge mess out in the field at the same time. Next time i get my hands on the machine, i will do a simultaneous pump/p1 test and let you know what i find.

Can i remove the metal suction screen without draining the trans? I did pull the trans filter but have not cut it open yet.

Im suspecting a mechanical failure causing the 1 and 2 speed issues when hot and maybe a intermittent short causing the trans to occasionally go into (selected speed) N.

Thank you again for your help, I really appreciate the help. I hate being new to these things.
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
Went ahead and drained the metal suction filter. No metal chunks found in magnet. Couple of little pebels in the screen but no mechanical parts. Strangely, I found two small pieces of screen but not of the metal filter itself. Guessing a screen on the trans fill tube?

Currently rigging up a second line so i can do the pump/p1 test.
 

koecon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
65
Location
Highland Ca.
Occupation
Heavy equipment consultant
The suction screen is behind a 4 bolt
cover on the engine side of the drop
box on the right just above the drive
shaft.
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
No, i meant that in the screened portion of the filter, i found two pieces of the same screen like material but they werent to the suction filter itself. Maybe off of a solenoid or guessing maybe a screen in the trans fill tube?
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
Alright managed to do some pressure testing on P1 and Pump at the same time. I ran into town so I could type this up from a computer instead of the cell phone I have been using for all previous information.

First off the discrepancies:

P1 initial pressure is supposed to be 80 psi at idle, 1F, neutral, I get 300 right off the bat.
Speed clutch minimum pressure is supposed to be 320 psi in any gear, I have 280-295 across the board all gears.
Direction clutch is supposed to be 55 psi lower than P1, and at idle I get 330 psi, which is above my P1 pressures.
From idle to high idle, my psi on P1 only goes up about 10 to 20 psi, in all gears.

On this test drive 2F/2R worked fine but 1F/1R stopped engaging at all. I did notice however that 2F and 2R are slight lower on the P1 psi ranged than other gears. 2F: 280 psi, 2R 285 psi, all other gears 295psi.

When shifting into 1F or 1R, the pressures on both pump and P1 dropped to normal psi as other shifts, but instead of the 1 second to shift, it happened in a millisecond and then the vehicle did not move with the exception of slight power going to the wheels but only moving them a couple of inches in the selected direction.

Another consistent issue I noticed was the difference between downshifts from 4F to 3F versus 3F to 2F.

Shifting from 4F to 3F, the pressures drop to normal shifting psi and after a second go back to pump 360, P1 295psi.

Shifting from 3F to 2F, the pressures will drop for a slight moment, bounce back up to pump 360psi, P1 280 PSI, THEN drop again, and after the normal pause, go back to running pressures and 2F actually engages. For some reason the shifting always takes that extra couple of moments for the random pressure fluctuation before the actual shift occurs.


I also experienced a random switch from 4F to 4N while driving down the road at 18mph, it did it several times very quickly but too fast for pressures to drop. After letting off the throttle it stayed in 4F and didn't give me any troubles.

Thoughts?
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
Oh and in one instance, shifting from 1F (non working at the time) to 2F, the pressures dropped to shifting pressures. Pump 50 psi?, P1 30 psi? and then stayed there. In the 20 seconds it took me to jot the notes down, pressures popped back up and machine went into gear.

Thanks in advance for everyone's continued help!
 

Bob/Ont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
1,605
Location
Ontario
Got me confused here too Mugly, check out the shift choices you have.
Sounds like they might be causing some of this.
Later Bob
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
The baffled feelings continue. Disconnected the dwnshift switch which was on the fritz and after a test drive found no change in the issue.

Defintely only happens when heated up.

I tested for continuity between wires from the harness at the trans ecm.

Interesting thing i found was that Sol 5, Speed 2 has continuity to Sol 1: Rev, Sol 2: Fwd, Sol 3: Speed 4, Sol 4:Speed 3 but NOT to Sol 6: Speed 1.

Thoughts on how to proceed???
 

Bob/Ont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
1,605
Location
Ontario
That continuity is likely common ground. Might want to unplug the solinoids and check for shorts across wires. Then check each solinoid for resistance, cold and when trans is warm. Heat might be shorting a winding.
Later Bob
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
To make sure I understand correctly. Unhook the harness going to trans and do a continuity check for possible shorts?

Then, unplug the solenoids and do a continuity check on each individual solenoid both cild and warm to see if resistance builds significantly with heat?

With the new solenoids in Speed 1 and 2 it almost makes me suspect the harness.

Man this is frustrating. Thank you for the ideas.
 

Bob/Ont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
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Location
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Unplug the harness from the control and the solinoids then check for shorted wires in the harness alone. Look for DROP in resistance when warm. That would indicate a breaking down of the coils insulation and the voltage shorting from winding to winding not going all the way around. Less effective wire length and less resistance.
Later Bob
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
Just wanted to update everyone on this. We ended up throwing an ECM in the machine based on the wide range of non consistant variables on both the trans pressure side and the electronically shifted side.

The ECM fixed the issue and the machine has worked without issue since.
 

Bob/Ont

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
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Location
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It's a hard pill to swallow, throwing expensive parts at it but it worked? A bad ECM is hard to diagnose, it's what's feeding you your trouble shooting info.
Later Bob
 

MUGLY

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Remote, Alaska
I'm glad we started on that end instead of the wiring harness along the way to the ECM. An interesting lesson for sure.
 
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