Cat 920 that has been sitting

[Joel59]

I am purchasing a '78 Cat 920 loader that has been sitting for 7-8 years. Its a 62K 9xxx serial number. It has a 3304PC engine in it. It comes with the famous story of "ran good when parked". The engine is now seized up. I'm sure there are no miracle cures, and it should just be bought with the thinking of doing an out of frame rebuild? Is this the approach you would take? Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[kshansen]

Guess it all depends on what you have in mind for this machine. If just wanting to use it for a few hours a year I might suggest one thing. If you are planning on using it close to 40 hours a week and not wanting to have it quit at a bad time then maybe would suggest something else.

Also it depends on what kind of facilities and skills you have to be doing the work or if you will be hiring it out!

You appear fairly new here with only 22 posts so if I was to say keep it away from a dealer in Minn. whose name starts with a "Z" you might not understand. I see you location is shown as NY, where abouts?

Give us some more details about you and it's job you have planned and I'm sure you will get some good suggestions.

PS Might want to look over this thread, I know it's not a 920 but the same basic engine in it guy did a lot of work on, just scroll past the parts on the tracks and track adjusted and other things you don't have!
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/cat-951-c-in-my-sights.38778/

 

[cdm123]

I am purchasing a '78 Cat 920 loader that has been sitting for 7-8 years. Its a 62K 9xxx serial number. It has a 3304PC engine in it. It comes with the famous story of "ran good when parked". The engine is now seized up. I'm sure there are no miracle cures, and it should just be bought with the thinking of doing an out of frame rebuild? Is this the approach you would take? Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

Yep, rebuild and have a reliable "no surprise" engine.

 

[old-iron-habit]

Ran good when parked. Did it move and operate good, or just run? A good question to ask. Has the exhaust been covered? Open and rained in for 10 years? How many hours? What kind of shape is the rest of the machine in? That normally gives some pretty good clues about how the machine was serviced and taken care of. Good Luck.

 

[kshansen]

And if possible how about posting some pictures, you'd be amazed what some people can spot in a picture or two!

 

[Joel59]

Here are a few pictures. I'm in western NY. We have the ability and tools to do the rebuild. Realistically, the loader will only be used occasionally to load bank run gravel and topsoil into my single axle dump for small odd jobs. I'd probably use it for snow removal as well. At scrap price, I can't see how I'm going wrong.

 

[Joel59]

And a couple more details. It belonged to an older gentleman who got sick and passed away. I am into it for a little more than scrap price, but not much. Right rear tire is flat. I was told by the grandson that the head had been redone, but at that time the machinist had recommended planing the block as it wasn't in spec. The owner, not wanting to pull the engine just "gooped" up the head gasket and used it as is. My thought is I will find antifreeze in the oil and that may have contributed to the seizure (since the exhaust is covered-albeit only by a rain cap). What do you think? Thanks.

 

[Bluox]

These machines are called money pits I've never heard of planning a 3304 block.
If they cobbled a head gasket what else ?
Bob

 

[kshansen]

Well if the block needs the deck planed it would need to come out and some one who knows what they are doing would have to recut the counter bores. Not a big job if one is set up to do it.

If you have the place to work on it preferably under cover I guess it would not be that big of a waste of effort to pop off the head and see what it looks like then if you are not scared at that point pull it out of the machine and get deeper into it.

I'd hold off on buying any parts till it was down to the bare block and the machinist has looked at it.

Snow in western NY? Hard to believe, I thought it all ended up north of Syracuse! Just this last Sunday we woke up to white stuff coming out of the sky. Did not stick as the ground was too warm but still did not like seeing it this late in April!

 

[bam1968]

I doubt the engine is stuck real hard. If the engine oil isn't way way overfull (from coolant leaking into the oil) I would concentrate on getting the engine free and running to make sure everything else is going to work before I would start dumping money into the engine. Heck, for an occasional use machine, that head gasket 'fix' might last a long time.

 

[Joel59]

That's kind of along the lines I'm thinking. What would the preferred method of "unsticking" the engine be?

 

[kshansen]

That's kind of along the lines I'm thinking. What would the preferred method of "unsticking" the engine be?

As bam1968 says first thing to check is oil level to see if there is coolant in there. Might want to crack open the drain and let a little drip out, if there is coolant in there it should be obvious as it will be at the bottom.

If no coolant in oil pan next to check would be the cylinders. Take fuel lines off and remove the nozzles, believe it takes a 15/16 or 1 inch socket on the top of prechamber to get them out a 3/4 inch wrench to remove the fuel lines. Once the nut is off the nozzles should pull out with the adapter. Once all them are out try turning engine over to see if anything comes out. I would suggest covering the fittings on the injection pump the fuel lines come off to keep dirt and crap out of the pump!

If it won't turn I think I might begin by dumping some penetrating oil in each cylinder through the hole the nozzle can out of and let it set for a couple days. Then with the nozzles still out try turning it over. If you can get good access to the front of crank try turning in both directions.

If you need a better description of any of this let me know and I can try for more details or even pictures!

 

[Joel59]

Thank you, kshansen. I think I understand everything you have said. My only confusion is the adapter that you speak of. What do I need there? Thanks again.

 

[kshansen]

Guess my terminology is a bit off according to Cat. Open the attached file and under the heading "Install Fuel Injection Valves" what I was calling adapters they are calling "body" #2 in picture and what I was calling nozzles they call "valves" part number #3 in the picture.

 

[Joel59]

Oh perfect. Thanks for taking the time with that. I really appreciate it!

 

[56wrench]

just another idea, you could pull the exhaust manifold and check for water intrusion into an exhaust port which is easily done on a non-turbo engine. it looks like the muffler goes straight onto the exhaust manifold and after long periods rain can leak past the rain cap especially during a wind. nothing beats a tin can or pail (as long as it doesn't rust through) over the exhaust. if no water has leaked in maybe it is dry seized just from condensation in the cylinder over the years- not probable but remotely possible in northern areas that have a season with ambient temperatures below freezing

 

[kshansen]

just another idea, you could pull the exhaust manifold and check for water intrusion into an exhaust port which is easily done on a non-turbo engine.

Yes, agree that is a very good idea!

 

[old-iron-habit]

Acetone and transmission fluid mix at 50/50 has been a preferred loosening agent in stuck antique Cat motors for years. Remember though, not all engines come loose. You have nothing to lose by trying though. Some have also used a porta power pump to push heavier oil into a piston that is up to get things moving. Just make a adapter for the injector port. You may have to remove the rockers to insure the valves are shut. May be a little drastic but again if you need to tear down otherwise it might be worth a shot.

 

[Joel59]

Well I got 3 gallons of water out of the oil pan drain

 

[Delmer]

Guess the oils not perfect. How much oil was there left? If it was pure water, no antifreeze, it might still free up. If it's antifreeze, why bother?