Cat 525 grapple skidder transmission issue when hooked to large pull? Fluid type?

[mike 96 ws6]

This transmission is the original with >15,000 hours. It pulls good with medium loads but when hooked to a large load the trans will start to pull/no-pull/pull ect. with about 5 seconds between. This is regardless off whether in 1st or 2nd gear (or 3 or 4, but I rarely pull in 3 and never in 4). It also will stick in reverse gear whether forward is selected or reverse and vise-versa. It will always shift to neutral correctly when selected. Once this issue starts there seems to be nothing to correct it, including complete cool down of the machine. It will return to normal operation at some time (not sure yet what criteria is involved with this return to normal?)
We have replace the $198 transmission direction control switch on the steering wheel but it had no effect on this problem).
My boss is a struggling logger and can't afford the cost of Caterpillar to send a mechanic, but...
One issue that concerns me is that he has been using Shell Rotella/Chevron Delo 400 'motor oil' in this transmission, which leaks ~ a gallon per 40 hours of operation because he says it's cheaper? I don't agree with this but it's his machine and he is hard headed/un-educated on API oil standards...
My main question is if using the improper oil can result in this type of symptom since I disagree with his use of motor oil in the transmission, but any other information is appreciated since I need this machine running so I can have a paycheck.
Thanks a ton for any help!!!
Mike

 

[Justin]

you might try to flash the codes when it is not working right, and that would help you narrow down where to look. I think you just have to hold dowm the button with the check mark on it and then be ready with a paper and pencil because they flash out real quick.

 

[mike 96 ws6]

Okay Justin,
I'll do that Monday.
Thanks!!!

 

[mike 96 ws6]

On second thought I may go tomorrow to check for codes and if the transmission is acting right then I'll pull some big loads to see if I can get it to malfunction and display a code.
If I cannot get the machine to fail tomorrow does the 525 Cat computer store codes in memory similar to the scanner I have that I use on OBD2 passenger vehicles? If so, will this/these history codes be displayed on the 'on dash' display or will the machine need to be connected to a Cat compatible scanner to find the stored code/codes?
Thanks again Justin!!!
Mike

 

[Super S]

I'm not extremely knowledgeable about transmissions but I think the Cats have a lock up torque converter that will almost make it feel like it is shifting gears when it isn't. I'm wondering if part of that could be trying to work and the other part may not be? May be completely off base as I can point to parts of a transmission but I don't understand exactly how it all works together to produce the desired results.

 

[mike 96 ws6]

you might try to flash the codes when it is not working right, and that would help you narrow down where to look. I think you just have to hold dowm the button with the check mark on it and then be ready with a paper and pencil because they flash out real quick.

Ok, I went to the woods this morning and it was raining hard so I didn't get a chance to see if it is acting right or not. But I did get some codes.
These are as accurate as I could do since they flash so fast so this may not be completely right:
First it showed 081 and flashed the following codes alternately with the 081 -
621F02
642F05
643F06
645F05
623F02
641F05
643F05
622F02
644F05
168F04

Then it showed 030 and the following codes flashed alternately with 030 -
177F04
248F02
600F04
821F04
096F03
263F04
110F04
819F04
819F02

Again, these may not be 100% accurate but they should be close.
Now where can I view a list of Cat codes to see what these codes are referring to? And a diagnostic procedure for these codes would be great also.
Thanks a ton for the help!!!
Mike

 

[mike 96 ws6]

I'm not extremely knowledgeable about transmissions but I think the Cats have a lock up torque converter that will almost make it feel like it is shifting gears when it isn't. I'm wondering if part of that could be trying to work and the other part may not be? May be completely off base as I can point to parts of a transmission but I don't understand exactly how it all works together to produce the desired results.

I don't believe the 1995 Cat 525 has any type of lockup for the converter but I may be wrong.

 

[Justin]

mike I will look up the codes in my repair book and try to post them, There is alot to go through and I sure one of the cat guys on here might be more help than me, but I will try to get them to you as soon as i can. I will also look up how to clear codes and then maybe you can clear them and drive it again to the most recent codes

 

[Justin]

525 trouble code chart

I scanned this and hope it turns out as far as the trouble shooting charts there is way to much to put on here.

 

[Justin]

well crap that did not turn out I will try to resize again

 

[Justin]

try again

see if this is better

 

[mike 96 ws6]

Thanks Justin! That shows up fine and printed ok also. Wow, like you said, it may be more helpful to reset the computer and see which code/codes show up when the transmission first malfunctions. How do I accomplish clearing all these codes?

 

[furpo]

I should first state that I am not CAT expert.

Generally you can reset fault codes by disconnecting the battery for a length of time. If you check them after and they all come up then obviously it did work.

The codes that would concern me are

177F04 Trans temp sensor voltage low
248F02 Incorrect data link
600F04 Hydraulic oil temp voltage low
110F04 Engine temp voltage low
819F04
819F02 Display data link issue

With a temperature sensor the voltage goes down as the temperature goes up. You are either having temperature issues or the computer thinks you are having temperature issues.

Most importantly your boss needs to understand that tipping oil on the ground is expensive no matter what price he paid for it. It is sad to see contractors dont change no matter what part of the world you are in.

 

[Justin]

to clear the codes you need to put a jumper wire in the service connector ( a 4 pin connector under the dash) and put the jumper between pin #2 and pin #3, the conector on mine is at the very bootom of plastic consol and all the wire going into it are black, hope that helps it is hard to explain

 

[mike 96 ws6]

Okay Justin, I'll look into resetting the codes first thing in the morning.
Update: Sunday evening my boss replaced a bad 'orfice tube' in the top plate on the transmission (valve body I assume - I wasn't there) after being advised to do so by a skidder mechanic we know. This mechanic presently has his own truck/machinery repair service with an excellent reputation, but before he opened his own business he was a mechanic for Thompson Caterpillar in Tupelo MS for several years.
So today I pulled wood all day with absolutely no issue, but I was very easy on the throttle so hopefully the orfice tube corrected the problem. But I'm not holding my breath - I'll increase throttle/loads some after we get the log pile caught up a bit.
I'll post back here with the results either way.
Thanks again. You've really been a ton of help!!!

 

[mike 96 ws6]

I should first state that I am not CAT expert.

Generally you can reset fault codes by disconnecting the battery for a length of time. If you check them after and they all come up then obviously it did work.

The codes that would concern me are

177F04 Trans temp sensor voltage low
248F02 Incorrect data link
600F04 Hydraulic oil temp voltage low
110F04 Engine temp voltage low
819F04
819F02 Display data link issue

With a temperature sensor the voltage goes down as the temperature goes up. You are either having temperature issues or the computer thinks you are having temperature issues.

Most importantly your boss needs to understand that tipping oil on the ground is expensive no matter what price he paid for it. It is sad to see contractors dont change no matter what part of the world you are in.

Thanks for your help furpo. Those codes concern me also, but this is a very old machine with very high/hard hours and I doubt the codes have been reset anytime in the last several years. So hopefully most of those codes are from the many past issues that were corrected without the code being reset. We'll know more after I reset them tomorrow and run it a while.
We spend most of our time trying to keep the leaks stopped, but all of our equipment is very old and prone to leaks. Oil is expensive and repair parts are also. Our company has survived, barely, through seeing most of the logging company's around these parts go broke and have their machinery auctioned off or ceased by the IRS. My boss spends the limited $ on the parts that are essential to keeping the equipment working so we can all eat and survive. We work on hydraulic hoses / hose repair, replace 'O' rings, replace cylinder seals ect on a daily basis. But the skidder transmission fluid leak will cost several thousand $'s to repair. So it's certainly on our list of needed repairs just as soon as we can afford the repair.
Thanks again for your help.

 

[LOGDODGER]

Check the filler cap, mine was giving problems similar and dust was getting in round the seal and making the shift solonoids play up.

 

[Justin]

mike is your skidder still working fine or what just want to check in and see if the orifice tube fixed it or what let us know

 

[mike 96 ws6]

Hi Justin, Sorry for the delay posting back. Yes, it seems replacing the orfice tube solved the problem. It's been pulling big loads @ WOT with no transmission issues at all. I see the connector you described and identified pin #2 and #3 but I haven't attempted to reset the codes yet. I needed to make sure what the proceedure is?
I assume I should connect the jumper with the key off/engine off, then turn the key to run position - not cranking engine? Is this correct? And if so, for how long do I leave the key on?

LOGDODGER, thanks for your help. I don't see any sign of dust on the inner side of the cap nor inside the filler tube. The seal looks good and seems to be doing it's job. But I'll keep an eye on it in the future. Thanks again!!!

 

[furpo]

How do you identify pins #2 and 3? Is it the same for a 525B?