Cat 416C. New to me. Questions...

[ddiiggy]

I am not new to backhoes. I ran a Case 580K for a number of years.
That was easy with it being new and everything being marked...

Just picked up a used Cat 416C today. ~4000 hours on the clock. I was told it was used by a utility installer company.

Serial Number *5YN05###*, Arrangement 1431736. Is there a rhyme or reason to the serial numbers to tell what options were factory installed?

Doesn't seem to be worn too bad. Not worn OUT like the other backhoes I have been presented with. Came with a 12" wide bucket.
It has hydraulic hoses Tee'ed off of the extenda-hoe hoses with some quick connectors down by the bucket. (Pin the extenda-hoe solid and use the hydraulic for something else...) I'm thinking maybe they had it available to use a plate compactor. I can't really tell if they DID use the extra hoses. Any other guesses why the extra hoses?

I am sure I would like a thumb. I don't know if it is ever going to happen. Is that going to be a WELD-on option? or do they bolt on somewhere?


Looks like it never HAD windows or doors. Just the two lower glass pieces in the front of the cab. No hinges on the door posts.


I'm trying to figure out what the switches on the dashboard do. I don't know if I am not seeing something that a switch is supposed to do or if something doesn't WORK. :beatsme Is there any place that I can get a picture or quick show without buying a manual?

I expect with there being no windows, there will be a blank space somewhere that a switch for windshield wiper would be. Would the switch be UP on/by the wiper motor or DOWN on the dashboard?

No heater or A/C. I don't know if they were an option or not. There could be a blank space somewhere that no switch is since it isn't installed?

I am trying to remember what all switches there are and what they do...
I do remember seeing some BLANK spaces where switches COULD be.

One switch on top left dash that goes left and right: That controls turn signals.
One switch on the left dash, next row: Seems like I figured out what it does, but I can't remember right now.
Second switch turns on 4x4? I think I got that figured out.
Third switch: Didn't find anything immediately obvious that it does. ??
Seems like there were some switches on the dash to the right of the steering column. ??

There are ~4? switches UP to the right side roof of the cab that turn on lights. I didn't check them to see what they all do (or not).

I don't remember seeing switches when turned around to run the back hoe.
I don't even remember if there are REAR lights. :beatsme Should there be other switches somewhere in the back of the cab for back lights? or are the ?lights controlled with the ~4 switches UP to the right in the front of the cab?


The lever on the right side (when swiveled around backwards) that lets the hoe latch loose seems to have the cable thingy too tight. The hoe latch just barely grabs on the pins. I have been used to the Case method of having to over-center the hoe and reverse the lever at the proper moment to get it to latch up. This CAT seems like it just gets the hoe up close and slows down and comes on up.


Parking brake? I think that is what this thingy on the floor is supposed to be. The lever was pulled up when the tractor was brought to me. It doesn't seem to do anything. The regular brakes seem to work; I didn't really TRY the brakes. Is there a parking brake that is SEPARATE from the foot brake?

What is the extra set of pin holes in the bucket for? Is it supposed to be used in the top set of holes or the bottom set of holes?

 

[PDG X]

Lotsa questions, but I think I can answer some of them.

The Serial Number doesnt imply the options, just a sequence number.

The hose T'd off the E-Stick is the supply line for hammer use - when you pin the stick and push the heal of the E-Stick pedal, it will divert flow to the hammer when connected - could also use it for a compactor plate. The return line is on the machine right side of the stick. The thumb would have to be weld on for the top of the link or cylinder. The lines you currently have will only work for one-way flow so some modification would have to be made to run a thumb.

If I can figure how to attach a file, I can send pictures of the switch panel from the manual. All of the light switches and wiper should be in the overhead panel, if the machine has a cab and wipers.

The boom lock cable sounds like it is rusted or stuck - use lots of penetrating oil then when loose - heavier oil - and makd sure you grease everything before use.

The parking brake is separate from the service brakes and should be just to the left of the loader control on the floor. If it does not hold the machine in 3rd gear, it is probably worn or out of adjustment. The handle should be screwed to the right to tighten. The parking brake is under the machine just in front of the differential. You should be able to see the brake pads to see if they are worn or just stuck.

The buckets have 2 sets of rear pins. One for clamping material next to the stick, and one for a vertical wall dig away from the machine. For normal digging you might try the one that it is set at now and move to the other when you get use to the operation and find you can't open or close the bucket far enough.

Hope this helps. Post any others I missed or you run into, as I have a lot of experience on CAT Backhoes.

PDG X
CAT 420D IT
CAT D3C
CAT 236
CAT 256C
and Lotsa Tools

 

[PDG X]

Looks like I can't add attachments so:

On your overhead panel the left 3 positions are for lights - 2 front, 1 rear.The 4th one is for a beacon and the last 3 are for wipers and washers.

On the front panel left, you should have the turn signals, dimmer switch, hazard flashers, Transmission neutralizer (should be red), and AWD

On the right of the dash you should have the horn, and I think Ride Control if it is equipped.

PDG X
CAT 420D IT
CAT D3C
CAT 236
CAT 256C
and Lotsa Tools

 

[ddiiggy]

Looks like I can't add attachments so:

On your overhead panel the left 3 positions are for lights - 2 front, 1 rear.The 4th one is for a beacon and the last 3 are for wipers and washers.

On the front panel left, you should have the turn signals, dimmer switch, hazard flashers, Transmission neutralizer (should be red), and AWD

On the right of the dash you should have the horn, and I think Ride Control if it is equipped.

ONLY 3 positions on my overhead panel. Looks like all lights.

Front panel left: Turn Signals, ?, What?Blank?, AWD, ?.

Right of the dash: What?Blank?, What?Blank?, What?Blank?, Horn.


Transmission neutralizer? = Same as pushing the button the shifter or front bucket control?


The boom lock cable isn't rusted or stuck. It just acts like it is too SHORT.
Is there adjustment on the inside end that is maybe screwed all in?


Weight?
Is there some charts that tell weight for different options?
I found some site that had one listed ~13,900. That might have been for 2x4 model.
Mine is 4x4, no doors or windows. What should I expect on the scales?

 

[stumpjumper83]

I think what you have is an open station, rops only tractor with a front windshield. I don't see too many on the east coast, but they seem kinda common on the west coast. As far as what the switches do, don't be ashamed to harrass a cat salesman, they should have all that down pat.

 

[Bajak]

The other empty switches would be for other options like ride control, IT quick coupler, Aux power for sweeper w/water pump, and all the rest of those kind of toys. If you remove the screws where I drew arrows, there is another fuse block in there.

 

[Bajak]

This set up is, in my opinion, very frustrating and often times useless. I will give you what it took for me too at least make it functional. The D series is better and the E series is again an improvement. That said, here we go...
#1 The only point for real adjustment.
#2 I have had good luck by using a die grinder and re shaping the hooks for better retention of the boom.
#3 Take this apart and clean and lubricate. I've found that if it sits too long in the unlocked position, it will find a seize point and not go all the way back too a locked position.
#4 Total waste of time too take apart unless you are replacing the entire cable. Even at that it is a PITA.
#5 "yoke/joke" This, as soon as it gets bent is a royal frustration to reshape and have work properly ever again. It takes patience. Even though I listed it at #5, it is often the best place to start.

 

[Bajak]

ddiiggy. I wish the best for you on your new acquisition. I will add some of my experience with a 416C. When new (less than a year old or <1500hrs) on 2 416C's we lost the reverser. It was under warranty on both machines so it cost the company nothing but down time. The cost would have been in the $6-800.00 range too repair. Other than that everything was good., for me.
Other operators at the time reported having to do the rear ends in their machines a couple of times. At the time I didn't understand why but now I have learned that when the brakes go it requires a complete disassembly of the rear end. It is quite costly to have Cat do it $6 000.00+/-. The guy that bought the macine I ran had it done for $1 400.00 by an independent HEM. No problems since but the estimated time is around 6 000 hrs for the components.

Other than that the 416C was a great productive machine in my opinion.

 

[ddiiggy]

I think what you have is an open station, rops only tractor with a front windshield.

I don't even have a front windshield.
Just the two SMALL glass pieces below dash level.
It doesn't look like there has ever been glass in there. :beatsme


Thanks everybody for answers so far.


Just a couple more questions:

The pins in the boom swing are getting sloppy.
I attached the picture #4 above and forgot to ask about it.
It doesn't look like there are bushings in there to replace.
What is general way to make them better?

What suggestions do you have for getting another bucket?
This thing came with a 12" wide bucket.
What sizes are available? 12", 18"?, 24"?, 30"?, 36"?
What size would you suggest for general purposes?

 

[Bajak]

The engineers at Cat should have been smart enough to put bushings in for the boom swing pins. Why there are not any is beyond me. I have seen some with a collar welded around the top of the pins. I'm not sure how effective a fix it was but having seen a few done like that I am assuming it was acceptable. I have ran with a 24" HD bucket(9.5cuft) and a 42" clean up bucket(14.0cuft) on both the 416C and 420D. A good friend of mine ran a 416C with a 30" GP bucket and did mostly sewer services. I'm not sure what capacity his bucket was but I think it was around 11.5 cuft. My clean up bucket was about as heavy as you would want to go. It is a matter of choice and application to determine what size bucket to use. It is up to you.
ON EDIT general purpose? 24" is my suggestion.

 

[RTSmith]

DDiggy- In this part of the country, we see a ton of Cats with the open station and two lower glass panels- no large front windshield. Frankly, I have a 420D with EROPS, and most days I'd rather have an open station when doing general farm work by myself. Working around the door gets frustrating, and it isn't a quickie lift off door either. But then again, when doing a couple of hours of loader work in the summer the AC is nice too..... I second the 24" bucket for general use. I'd like to have a 12", but if I can only have 1 a 24" is it. I have seen some listed on EBay before if you go looking for one.

 

[pwrstroke6john]

You can get about any size bucket you can imagine, but I would go with a 24 especially since you dont have a coupler on there.

 

[Tigger]

hey ddiigy

I also have a couple of questions on TLB.
I checked out a 2002Cat 420D with 1500 hrs and is in great shape except for an oil leak on the diff. One thing that I don't know if this is normal is that the brakes moan and groan when I tried them out. The unit has sat around for a couple of yeas with very little use. I know that it uses wet brakes so where is the noise coming from? Anyone have an answer?

Tigger

 

[ddiiggy]

the brakes moan and groan when I tried them out. The unit has sat around for a couple of yeas with very little use. I know that it uses wet brakes so where is the noise coming from?
Tigger

I have had brakes on some other machines moan and groan.
Usually it was dry brakes that have gotten wet with water or oil or brake dust.

There are lots of variables in the formula to make noisy brakes.
Sometimes you have the same ingredients and don't get the same results. (...chocolate cake or brownies)

The description of having to disassemble the rear end to repair worn brakes on this machine makes it soud like they are also WET brakes.
If your machine got water mixed with the oil in the rear end it might show first with the brakes. (Hint: Check this)


Physics: Noise is made by vibration of something.
If the brakes catch some little bit and then release and catch and release at just the right frequency, you will have some vibration.
The vibration could be transmitted to a bearing that is some tiny bit loose that is allowing a shaft to resonate into audible noise.

Brake noise could be caused by something loose or some foreign matter in there.
Finding out which? of those is another matter.
Do you NEED to find out? You will probably just end up using it anyway.


Anybody else feel free to jump in here and make corrections to my rambling... :tong

 

[Tigger]

Thanks for the info.
I will get the rear end oil checked and then run it for a bit to see if the noise clears up.
Thanks
Tigger

 

[Bajak]

Go to a Ford dealership and get some "Anti-chatter" brake additive and add it to the rear diff. I don't remember the exact name for it. The chatter is common in the 'C' and 'D' series. Our Cat dealer said it isn't anything to be concerned about, although it is annoying.

 

[Bearmtnmartin]

The boom swing post is a terrible design. No bushings. Those engineers should go back to school. I used to take the pins out of mine every 6 months or so and build up the hole with weld. Then I would use a carbide burr and trim it until the pin almost fit, then hone it till the pin slipped in. Pretty crude, but if you are patient and very carefull, a Saturday mornings work will tighten things up for a while for no money spent. As for the handbrake, it's a disc on the driveline and very easy to overpower. So it gets left on and cooked.

 

[rntvin]

what year is it

 

[cgraham1]

The hose T'd off the E-Stick is the supply line for hammer use - when you pin the stick and push the heal of the E-Stick pedal, it will divert flow to the hammer when connected - could also use it for a compactor plate. The return line is on the machine right side of the stick. The thumb would have to be weld on for the top of the link or cylinder. The lines you currently have will only work for one-way flow so some modification would have to be made to run a thumb.

My tractor came with an auger attachment. I have a similar setup, only mine is Teed off the the bucket curl circuit (which is nice because I can still use the extenda-hoe if I need a little more reach). I have case 4 stick controls so it's got it's own lever. It might be a little confusing with wobble sticks?:beatsme

 

[heavylift]

the back holes.... for digging staight down at the start of the trench.
front ones are for loading trucks . It keeps the bucket close to the boom , so the material stays in the bucket.

teed hose maybe for a breaker also....

12" buckets are a pain in clay or muddy stuff... I seen a few hoes that have a chain welded in the bucket , the hooked to the boom... I seen it work and it does a good job of pulling the sticky stuff out..

Lights " you don't need *)*)_&^^% lights", mechanic said one day. about a week later he was trying to fix the lights at midnight, with about 6" snow on the ground. So we could use the loader . The guard wouldn't let us in the plant with no lights. I got 3 hours of LOL while watching him fix the lights.