CAT 299C - Hydraulic Oil Pre-Heat Possible?

[HighFlyerAK]

Hi!

I am trying to find a way to pre-heat the hydraulic oil on my 299C skid steer.
Since the hydraulic oil tank is not metal, a lot of options are not an option unfortunately.

I do have a block heater, which works very well and surprisingly quick. I can literally watch the coolant temp rise on the service display when I have it plugged in.

Running the machine occasionally up here in AK in the winter is rather hard on it (in my opinion).

ANY ideas or experience for cold weather operation is greatly appreciated.

 

[Nige]

What grade of oil are you using right now in the hydraulic system..?

 

[Delmer]

And what is the coldest temp you operate it in?
I'd think you could attach a silicone heating mat to the plastic tank as long as you get one with low watt density and attach only to the tank where it will always have oil inside. Or attach a higher watt density heater to a piece of 1/8" aluminum and attach that to the tank. Silicone caulk with aluminum flakes will be a decent heat transfer compound for this application (unfortunately you'll have to mix your own)

 

[HighFlyerAK]

What grade of oil are you using right now in the hydraulic system..?

I honestly don‘t know.
It has been a while since I bought the last 5 gallon bucket of Heavy Duty hydraulic oil. I will have to check.

 

[HighFlyerAK]

And what is the coldest temp you operate it in?
I'd think you could attach a silicone heating mat to the plastic tank as long as you get one with low watt density and attach only to the tank where it will always have oil inside. Or attach a higher watt density heater to a piece of 1/8" aluminum and attach that to the tank. Silicone caulk with aluminum flakes will be a decent heat transfer compound for this application (unfortunately you'll have to mix your own)

It would be safe to say that I won‘t run the machine unless it has at least around 0°F/-20°C or warmer. We do get longer lasting waves of -10° to -15°F, but so far I haven‘t seen a reason why I would have to run my equipment at such temperatures.

When you suggest ‚low watt‘, what Watt do you have in mind?

 

[Nige]

I honestly don‘t know.
It has been a while since I bought the last 5 gallon bucket of Heavy Duty hydraulic oil. I will have to check.

Based on what the Canadian members have recommended for use in skid steer hydraulics in similar climatic conditions to what you are describing the perceived wisdom is to use a 0W/20 multigrade hydraulic oil. I'll bet that you aren't using anything that "thin".

 

[HighFlyerAK]

Based on what the Canadian members have recommended for use in skid steer hydraulics in similar climatic conditions to what you are describing the perceived wisdom is to use a 0W/20 multigrade hydraulic oil. I'll bet that you aren't using anything that "thin".

I agree. Most definitely not. I will look into that first thing Monday. Thank you Nige!

 

[Delmer]

When you suggest ‚low watt‘, what Watt do you have in mind?

Low enough that it won't melt the plastic I'm fairly sure there are silicone pad heaters that are powerful enough to melt the plastic tank, put those on aluminum sheet that's big enough to spread the heat out, or get a lower watt density one.

This came up on a search, "for use on smooth metal surfaces" so I'd put that on a bigger aluminum plate and silicone that to your tank.
https://phillipsandtemro.com/solutions/specialty/pad-heaters/

 

[Welder Dave]

Plastic hydraulic tanks and fuel tanks for that matter seem like the opposite of progress. I thought steel hyd. tanks help to dissipate heat. I got the hyd. oil heater option on my skid steer. It threads in a bung on the tank just like the drain plug. Some machines don't even have a drain plug on the hyd. tank. I think I read where hyd. oil heaters use half the watts of a water heater element. Plastic tanks would be horrible if you had a fire on the machine.

 

[HighFlyerAK]

Plastic hydraulic tanks and fuel tanks for that matter seem like the opposite of progress. I thought steel hyd. tanks help to dissipate heat. I got the hyd. oil heater option on my skid steer. It threads in a bung on the tank just like the drain plug. Some machines don't even have a drain plug on the hyd. tank. I think I read where hyd. oil heaters use half the watts of a water heater element. Plastic tanks would be horrible if you had a fire on the machine.

So you have a factory hydraulic oil tank heater installed?
Any chance you would have a part number perhaps?
Unless it is a different brand/model of course. Still interesting to know that such thing exist from the factory!


Looks like there could be a few available ‚openings‘...

 

[HighFlyerAK]

Low enough that it won't melt the plastic I'm fairly sure there are silicone pad heaters that are powerful enough to melt the plastic tank, put those on aluminum sheet that's big enough to spread the heat out, or get a lower watt density one.

This came up on a search, "for use on smooth metal surfaces" so I'd put that on a bigger aluminum plate and silicone that to your tank.
https://phillipsandtemro.com/solutions/specialty/pad-heaters/

I can follow your logic. The only argument I would have against that solution would be the lack of a large enough flat surface. But I might be wrong about that.

 

[HighFlyerAK]

Plastic hydraulic tanks and fuel tanks for that matter seem like the opposite of progress. I thought steel hyd. tanks help to dissipate heat. I got the hyd. oil heater option on my skid steer. It threads in a bung on the tank just like the drain plug. Some machines don't even have a drain plug on the hyd. tank. I think I read where hyd. oil heaters use half the watts of a water heater element. Plastic tanks would be horrible if you had a fire on the machine.

I fully agree with you Welder Dave!
I would love a metal version of a hydraulic tank, especially heat dissipation could be useful in the summer sometime.

 

[Welder Dave]

My machine has a steel hydraulic tank. I don't know who makes the hyd. oil heater but it is 3/4" NPT similar to a block heater. Kind of like the ones below but shorter.

2020 Phillips and Temro Catalog (cld.bz)

 

[HighFlyerAK]

My machine has a steel hydraulic tank. I don't know who makes the hyd. oil heater but it is 3/4" NPT similar to a block heater. Kind of like the ones below but shorter.

2020 Phillips and Temro Catalog (cld.bz)

What type of skid steer is it?!

 

[Cmark]

Not wishing to be controversial here, but why not use a heating pad on a (full) plastic tank? Did nobody else do the boiling a paper cup full of water with a candle trick when they were a kid?

I'm not saying it would work, but the theory's good.

 

[Welder Dave]

What type of skid steer is it?!

A Thomas made in Canada.

 

[HighFlyerAK]

Not wishing to be controversial here, but why not use a heating pad on a (full) plastic tank? Did nobody else do the boiling a paper cup full of water with a candle trick when they were a kid?

I'm not saying it would work, but the theory's good.

But if it didn‘t work, I would have a big mess on my hands and spend a lot of money and labor to fix the mess

 

[Welder Dave]

A heating pad for oil stuck on the bottom of the tank could work. Kind of like heat tape for plastic water lines.

 

[HighFlyerAK]

A heating pad for oil stuck on the bottom of the tank could work. Kind of like heat tape for plastic water lines.

I have sent a request to HTD Heat Trace, Inc., with a photo and what I was intending to do.
The reply was...
„Thank you for your inquiry, but we don’t offer a heater for your application. There is not enough surface area for a heater like ours to be able to accomplish what you are looking for.“

Am I really trying to do something so unusual?!

Changing the oil twice a year, before and after winter, doesn‘t seem to be very... efficient. (No offense Nige)

I just got back from running my skidsteer today.
OAT was 30°F, block heater had the coolant up to 85°F by the time I started it.
Hydraulic oil was at 30°F.
It took 19 minutes to get it to 50°F!

 

[HighFlyerAK]

A heating pad for oil stuck on the bottom of the tank could work. Kind of like heat tape for plastic water lines.

Welder Dave - the heating pad manufacturers I have considered, require metal tanks. Unless there is a company which I am not aware of which specializes in non-metallic fluid containers!?