Cat 267b Oil analysis

[lonelyowl7]

Hey, I've been having problems with my skid steer getting water in the oil, posted on here a couple times trying to figure it out. Changed the oil a couple times, kept coming back. Took the head off and replaced the head gasket, thought it fixed it, but water in oil again. Finally sent an oil analysis through Cat.

While I was waiting, I took the head off again, stripped it all down and sent it to machine shop to check for cracks. They found no cracks, said it was a little warped, so they cleaned it, milled it, made sure valves seated good, and made it new.

Today I get the results back from the oil analysis and it says contains excessive water, which I knew obviously, but it also says tested negative for glycol, which means its not the coolant/antifreeze getting into the oil... I did say a couple times, is it possible that its rainwater getting into the oil, and everyone said it was unlikely.

It also says wear rates are high/several metals are high, appearing to be top end metals.

Any comments on reading this oil analysis would be greatly appreciated, don't really know what each of the metals content mean.

Also, any ideas on how water is getting into the engine. Thanks!

 

[Coaldust]

I’d like to know how many hours this sample has and what oil you are using. Are you using bulk oil or a packaged product?

 

[lonelyowl7]

I’d like to know how many hours this sample has and what oil you are using. Are you using bulk oil or a packaged product?

This is with less than 5hrs as the water was in the oil again and didn't want to run it.

It is Shell Rotella 10w-30 in 1 gallon containers

 

[lonelyowl7]

I am just reading other forums on oil analysis... it says sodium along with boron and potassium confirms glycol contamination? Why would cat say it tests negative for glycol and its not antifreeze

 

[Coaldust]

Interesting elemental analysis for only 5 hours of gameplay. Especially, iron. How are you taking the sample? Oil drain plug or suction gun?

 

[lonelyowl7]

Interesting elemental analysis for only 5 hours of gameplay. Especially, iron. How are you taking the sample? Oil drain plug or suction gun?

Honestly probably less than 5 hours. I did take it from the drain plug as I do not have a suction gun. I was wondering if this would affect the analysis as stuff settles to the bottom and/or separates.

 

[Coaldust]

Sodium, boron potassium & glycol are found in new oil as part of the chemistry. Then, rapidly goes away. New oil can get flagged for having coolant contamination and it causes all sorts of confusion.

 

[lonelyowl7]

I bought this several months ago with undercarriage needing serious work, and I didn't do the best job inspecting the engine, as it sounded good, and the oil looked good at the time. Also, the guy said in the listing that it had a brand new bottom end recently including, pistons, rods, bearings.

I have no proof of that, but if he was having water problems and ran it like that, I wouldnt be surprised if it needed all that.

 

[Nige]

Interesting elemental analysis for only 5 hours of gameplay. Especially, iron

And the silicon... I would expect to see numbers in single figures at 250 hours on the oil not 13ppm at 5 hours.

I assume that the sample was taken with the oil at normal operating temperature .?

 

[lonelyowl7]

And the silicon... I would expect to see numbers in single figures at 250 hours on the oil not 13ppm at 5 hours.

I assume that the sample was taken with the oil at normal operating temperature .?

I did not have it at operating temperature, it was cold. This was my first time doing an oil analysis, and I didnt know it should be done with it at operating temperature.

I mainly wanted to do the test just to determine if the water was coolant or not. The oil being so new, I didn't expect to see any wear indication.

 

[lonelyowl7]

 

[Coaldust]

Water in a sample is often very subjective. Often done with a “crackle test” on a hot plate. Very difficult to tell the difference between 1000ppm or 500ppm.

Do you store the machine under cover?
Excessive idle hours in cold weather?
Live in the Amazon rainforest?

 

[Coaldust]

Oh’ boy. Looks like a milk shake. Holy cow.

 

[lonelyowl7]

Water in a sample is often very subjective. Often done with a “crackle test” on a hot plate. Very difficult to tell the difference between 1000ppm or 500ppm.

Do you store the machine under cover?
Excessive idle hours in cold weather?
Live in the Amazon rainforest?

Oh’ boy. Looks like a milk shake. Holy cow.

Haha, I do not live in the amazon

No excessive idle and stored outside.

I always thought the engine gets soaked when it rained, and that couldn't be good for it

And yea, there is definitely water in there haha, and thats only a couple times to operating temperature on that oil.

I'm hoping the milled head will fix the problem, he took off .006" so it must've been pretty warped

 

[Coaldust]

With all the engine maintenance history you provided, I’m thinking oil cooler breech.

 

[lonelyowl7]

With all the engine maintenance history you provided, I’m thinking oil cooler breech.

When I replaced the head gasket the first time, I did remove the oil cooler and inspected it, and it looked fine. Also, people said that if the oil cooler was bad, there would be oil in the coolant do to the pressure difference, which there is not, coolant looks brand new.

When I took the head off the first time, the headgasket was pretty rusty, and when I took it off the other day, the new headgasket had coolant all over it. Makes me think the head milling should fix the problem.

 

[Coaldust]

You could verify a potential coolant leak by warming up the engine, draining the oil, and pressurize the cooling system. Then, see how much coolant drips out the oil pan drain overnight. Maybe you are dealing with a cracked block.

 

[Cliffy]

Thinking outside box here. Is the coolant actually coolant or is it water and food dye.
Might explain sample results.

 

[lonelyowl7]

Thinking outside box here. Is the coolant actually coolant or is it water and food dye.
Might explain sample results.

Haha, no I put in fresh coolant