CAT 246D Error Message E459-2

[Popntx]

If you saw from my previous thread, I had an alternator problem last spring and had it replaced back in May. The very next day after it was replaced, I got the error message "E459-2 Machine, Engine Rated Horsepower Output Changed Engine power rating mismatch". It did start but would only run in limp mode. The guy that replaced the alternator came back out a week later and it started up and ran just fine, and he could find nothing obviously wrong so nothing else was done.

Ever since then, I've used the machine a few hours per week and it's been running just fine....until a couple of weeks ago. I had been running it for about 3 hours with no problems, turned it off for about 10 minutes, tried to start it back up and nothing happened. The started wouldn't even engage. I got a new message on the temp gauge that just said "FAULTED", and beyond that the gauge wasn't displaying the temperature.

The next morning, I tried to start the machine and in addition to the temp gauge message I got the same E459-2 error message that I had gotten back in May. Except now the machine wouldn't start at all.

About a week later, I tried to start the machine and it started up and ran perfectly! However, now I have no confidence that the problem won't reoccur at any time.

The guy that replaced the alternator is scheduled to come back out and look it over. He says that he suspects its a wiring/grounding problem perhaps related to moisture. He did say that these types of problems can be difficult to diagnose. I called CAT and they said make sure all of the wiring is secure and properly grounded, particularly behind the alternator. Regarding the temp gauge not working, they said make sure the wiring it secure for that.

I can't help but think the problem is related to when the alternator was replaced, since I'd never had this type of problem before. I trust the guy that worked on it, but I'm concerned that he may not be able to diagnose the root cause. He said if it's a software/computer related problem, CAT will need to do that as he does not have access to the codes, etc. I hate to have a CAT technician come check it out, as I understand that can get expensive, but if that's what's needed I'm prepared to do it. I need a machine that I have confidence in.

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice. My machine is a 2014 246D, and the last 8 digits of the serial number are BYF01055. Thanks!

 

[Nige]

Check the ground connections between the main wiring harness and the engine block for corrosion and also for being tight.
That may or may not be somewhere close to the alternator, I'm not sure.

 

[Nige]

Just in case you are wondering where those ground connections are located........

This is the one for the C3.3 engine.


And this one is for the C3.8 engine. Both circled in red. Also see the notes below.

1. Ensure that all grounds on the engine harness are secure and clean of debris. This includes grounds to frame and grounds to engine block. Refer to Illustrations 1 and 2 for block ground locations.
2. Ensure that engine harness is not burnt or show signs of obvious damage. If so, replace engine harness.
3. Remove the connectors from the engine ECM to ensure that there are no bent pins. Also, ensure that the engine harness connector wires are not loose or disconnected from connector.
4. Refer to Troubleshooting, Electrical Power Supply - Test for more information.

 

[Popntx]

Can you tell me how to tell which engine I have?

In addition to the E459-2 error message, my temperature gauge is not displaying the temperature, and instead displays the message "Faulted" on the gauge. CAT support says to check where the temperature gauge wiring is connected to the engine. Can you tell me where that is on the engine? Perhaps this is the root cause of the error message?

 

[heymccall]

 

[Nige]

Can you tell me how to tell which engine I have?

Have you tried looking at the data plate on the engine valve cover.?

 

[heymccall]

Have you tried looking at the data plate on the engine valve cover.?

C3.3B

 

[Popntx]

Yes, it's C3.3B

Unfortunately, I'm at the point now that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and have a CAT technician come out and diagnose the issue. I'm not technically/mechanically knowledgeable enough to proceed. I appreciate your help. Thanks!

 

[codyrshore711]

Do you happen to remember what the issue was? Having the same problem here.

 

[Nige]

Do you happen to remember what the issue was? Having the same problem here.

See the photos in Post #3 above. Pick whichever one suits the engine model you have in your machine, disassemble the ground cable connection to the cylinder block, clean thoroughly and reassemble making sure the hardware is tight. Report back with your findings.

 

[codyrshore711]

All grounds are good. All pins off J1 connection to ECM are correct except pins 16,17,36,37,45,48,49,50,65, and 71.

 

[codyrshore711]

No crank, no start. E459-2. Was running fine, parked at lunch and has never cranked again. Can send power to starter relay and it will crank. Lost ground at (C903-C59 BU-18) for connector to power rly ecm, jumped ground to it and now all voltages are correct there.

 

[Nige]

Lost ground at (C903-C59 BU-18) for connector to power rly ecm, jumped ground to it and now all voltages are correct there.

There is a splice in the harness where C903-C59 meets C903-C51. That splice has most likely failed. Don't ask me where the splice is physically located though. I have no idea.

Note that wire C903 should be grounded back to the Engine ECM, Connector J1, Pin 3 & Pin 23. It can be grounded to the machine frame for testing putposes but for a permanent fix it should be grounded back to the ECM. Run a replacement wire from the ECM Power Relay to CONN 4, Pin 27 maybe.?

 

[codyrshore711]

When testing at the pins going into the ECM, they are coming back as negative. It seems to be a ground issues for sure because I found that (H808-RP9 WH-18) was also showing nothing, grounded it in a temporary spot and it’s now cranking at the key, but still sending the E459-2 code with the same faulted coolant temperature sensor.

 

[Nige]

I would suggest that you need to get hold of some Deutsch connector pin removal tools and start removing wires from the ECM connectors J1 & J2 for testing. With power supplies and ground on those connectors it's not possible to simply unplug the connector, it has to be a case of unpinning single wires. Search for Deutsch part number 0411-310-1605 which works for 16-20 SWG wires.

0411-310-1605 Part Detail | TTI, Inc.

{{metaDescription}}

www.tti.com

For example you could unpin C903-EJ6 & C903-EJ10 from Pins 3 & 23 respectively of connector J1. Turn the key to the ON position - do you have a clear ground on Pins 3 & 23.? If you connect one side of a test light to Batt+ and the other side to connector J1 Pin 3 (for example) the test light should light up.

 

[codyrshore711]

I’ve had this harness out once and tested voltage throughout it and the voltages were all good, but I didn’t test amperage with a light or test tool. I was about to take an extra harness out of another machine, put it into this one and then test that way so sounds like that’s the next route.

 

[Nige]

As I see it the ECM creates a "pathway" for a negative signal for want of a better expression, effectively a route back (eventually) to Battery Negative or frame ground, whatever. My preference would be to use a 1-2A test light connected to Batt+ then you know the circuit is flowing a substantial amount of current rather than simply testing for continuity with a multimeter. The only way I see of doing that is by unpinning specific wires and leaving the connector with the rest of the harness hooked up to the ECM.

 

[Nige]

This might be a stupid question but have you checked power to, and ground from, the ECM.?
Both unswitched and switched..?

 

[codyrshore711]

Yes, checked all of that. Had an extra machine laying around, grabbed that engine harness and still having the same problem. The intake heater relay coil line is showing up as negative, but it’s a positive line. When power is sent to it, it clicks but only shows 10V but the battery is charged to 12V. Could that be the problem? I wouldn’t think so but I’ve seen crazier.

 

[Nige]

Had an extra machine laying around, grabbed that engine harness and still having the same problem.

Same ECM on that extra machine with same software.? If so try swapping the ECM and see what that does.

It's why I suggested earlier to go unpinning wires rather than make wholesale changes because you rapidly get to the point where it's hard to keep track of what has been done.

The intake heater relay coil line is showing up as negative, but it’s a positive line. When power is sent to it, it clicks but only shows 10V but the battery is charged to 12V.

Again a 1A test light could be your friend, as would unpinning wires. The air intake heater relay coil power supply comes from the ECM and is grounded to the machine frame to complete the circuit.
Also think about this. The other side of the relay coil is connected to ground as I said earlier. Are sending some sort of external power (not from the ECM in other words) to make the coil click.?

Personally I'm beginning to suspect that the ECM is on the fritz, and unpinning wires to remove external loads/components then testing the ECM Pins with a test light would confirm what's going on.