Cat 225 Questions

[ls2005019227]

I recently purchased a 1978 Cat 225, and have a few questions for those who have experience with this machine. Overall, this machine has a few cosmetic bruises, but SEEMS (my inexperienced opinion FWIW) to be relatively mechanically sound. This may be of little benefit to answering my questions, but I would add that since this machine is new to me, I serviced it last weekend changing the engine oil w/ 2 filters (3208), spin-on fuel filter, both air filters, and all three hydraulic filters.

1. The boom/stick/bucket and slew operate fine, and the machine tracks well, but you're not able to use the boom/stick or bucket while tracking. Slewing works fine while tracking. Is this a limitation of this model, or do I have issues? If issues, any thoughts on diagnosis? With the work that I'm currently using it for, it's not a huge problem, but I would like the ability to pull myself up a hill, or to help pull myself out of the mud if needed (because I sure don't have anything that could pull it out, if I got it stuck!!).

2. Although this machine tracks great forward, when moving in reverse, it is definitely not as smooth (kind of a quick banging sound/vibration); almost like the track is binding. One individual thought I may have a bearing out on an idler (couldn't see one on Partstore.com). Any thoughts or ideas?

3. (I feel really dumb asking this one, but I honestly don't know) On the inside of the final drive covers, each side has a plug that appears to use a 3/4" drive ratchet to remove. Is this typically filled with hydraulic oil, or gear oil?

Thanks for any help,

Robert

 

[cat980]

i had a 225 and i wasnt really able to move the bucket with traveling but the boom and stick yea but i just held the pedel down till it started to me a little bit. DO you grease the tracks so they were tight and not sagging that might be the problem or the sprocket is worn out and the track is slipping. That is the final drive oil it is filled with 90 weight gear oil.

 

[ls2005019227]

Thanks for the response.

No, I haven't greased the tracks as they have between 1 & 2 inches of sag and had read that this is about right.

Sprocket isn't "jumping cogs", as I've had others watch/listen while backing up to see if they could determine the issue, and they definitely would have seen that. The vibration isn't nearly that bad.

I'm still unsure whether this machine should be able to use the boom/stick while tracking or if I've got a problem.

Any other thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks,

Robert

 

[RonG]

The hydraulic pumps on excavators do "double duty" and you can tell what duties are shared by which functions that you lose while doing the other one.Plan your work accordingly.Some excavators have more pumps than others ($$$) so some will perform differently in this regard.Ron G

 

[ih100]

You can pull yourself with the bucket while tracking if you don't stamp on the tracking pedal. Start pulling on the bucket and stick and feather the pedal until the racks just start to move. Remember you're operating old technology there.

 

[pinesd3400]

question #3

I think the best thing is to shop ebay books pop up time to time. On mine
(question #3) the big plugs on the drives when taken out, there should be
a large bolt in there. When tightened up this pulls a gear idler shaft out,
meaning out of mesh. You have to do both sides - this is so you can
tow the machine (if the motor blows up or something) Then to restore this
feature unscrew the bolt and putting the big plug back on- the plug pushes
on the bolt thus pushing the shafted gear back into mesh. Thats what my
book says. Also I use #90 gear oil in there so youre question a good valid
one. Also i have found cat books on ebay like $200 yikes!!!

 

[jrtraderny]

The 200 series Cats give priority to the travel motors, the boom and bucket functions will work but only minimal and only by feathering the travel pedal.
jr

 

[dynahoescott]

225 cat

The old 200 serires hoes were known for that, you can tavael and use the digging functions together but it does take some getting used to and coordination. Once you get used to that machine, you will love it and find you can do everything with that rig that you can with a new one. Without the computerization. the only benefit to todays machines is they are more quieter and better heating systems:drinkup

 

[john1066]

we have 2 225's 2 235's and 2 245's that problem is the same accross all of them the 245D is a little better than the rest of them but still not able to move the bucket stick and boom while walking the machine.

 

[sultan]

I'm wondering, how many pumps did the original 245 excavator have? Did it support simultaneous digging operations (i.e. stick in and boom up)?

I tried out an interesting old 245 with low hours and generally decent condition at an auction today. It was pretty fast for its size (i.e. almost as fast as a 365), but I noticed one thing - I couldn't do those two hydraulic functions at once. Boom down and stick out worked together but i had to slow down the stick movement to a near halt to lift the boom.

Edit: After further thinking, I believe the 245 probably had 2 pumps and combined function capability, because all the smaller 200 series of the era did. Correct me if I'm wrong. What could be causing this inability to perform combined functions? A failed second pump maybe? It could be that the speed is just because there was no load.

 

[sultan]

I'm wondering, how many pumps did the original 245 excavator have? Did it support simultaneous digging operations (i.e. stick in and boom up)?

I tried out an interesting old 245 with low hours and generally decent condition at an auction today. It was pretty fast for its size (i.e. almost as fast as a 365), but I noticed one thing - I couldn't do those two hydraulic functions at once. Boom down and stick out worked together but i had to slow down the stick movement to a near halt to lift the boom.

Edit: After further thinking, I believe the 245 probably had 2 pumps and combined function capability, because all the smaller 200 series of the era did. Correct me if I'm wrong. What could be causing this inability to perform combined functions? A failed second pump maybe? It could be that the speed is just because there was no load.

Hmm... I am still wondering what's the cause. I don't know much about the hydraulic systems on these old beasts, so someone help me. The sale is soon, and I otherwise liked the machine. The machine seemed too fast for a failed pump to be the cause. I could raise the boom about 14 degrees a second at ~80% throttle. Stick fully out to fully in took about 4 seconds [in the air, with no load]. All functions worked perfectly on their own. Seemed pretty fast for such a big old machine.

Combined functions worked as expected when there were no big pressure differences. The only thing was that the boom would not go up while bringing in the stick unless I slowed stick in to a crawl. The pressure needed for stick in [in the air] is far less than the pressure to raise the boom, so the oil took the path of least resistance. But shouldn't it split the loads between the two pumps so that two movements can be done simultaneously despite the pressure differences? I don't know enough about the machine. Help...

 

[sultan]

Hmm... I am still wondering what's the cause. I don't know much about the hydraulic systems on these old beasts, so someone help me. The sale is soon, and I otherwise liked the machine. The machine seemed too fast for a failed pump to be the cause. I could raise the boom about 14 degrees a second at ~80% throttle. Stick fully out to fully in took about 4 seconds [in the air, with no load]. All functions worked perfectly on their own. Seemed pretty fast for such a big old machine.

Combined functions worked as expected when there were no big pressure differences. The only thing was that the boom would not go up while bringing in the stick unless I slowed stick in to a crawl. The pressure needed for stick in [in the air] is far less than the pressure to raise the boom, so the oil took the path of least resistance. But shouldn't it split the loads between the two pumps so that two movements can be done simultaneously despite the pressure differences? I don't know enough about the machine. Help...

Ignore my previous two posts. I tested the machine again today and discovered that actually it does work properly, and it can do all simultaneous functions. I just wasn't used to the feel of the 200 series machines; it can do everything but it doesn't have the smoothness and precision of the more modern 300 series machines that I am used to.

Just 2 other gremlins that I found. The first is a mysterious electrical issue related to starting the machine. I couldn't start it any way today other than directly shorting the starter. Probably just a loose wire somewhere. That didn't worry me.

The other issue was that it seemed to swivel extremely slowly to the right by itself (as in 1 degree rotation every 5 seconds) when all the controls were in neutral position, even with the pilot controls off. Now this machine doesn't have automatic shoe type swing brakes, so that could be playing a factor. It could just be that the machine was at a slight incline. Is this anything to be concerned about?

 

[john1066]

on the 200 series machines there is a swith on the right console that puts free swing or auto stop

 

[Double B]

I have a 51u series 79 or 80 yr model machine and I love it. It has no a/c or radio but parts are cheap its strong and paid for!! Once you get the feel for it you can as staed above manuever that thing anywhere as if it were a brand new 320!!

 

[cat980]

i had an 225 that my uncle got shipped over from germany all of the warning signs were in german

 

[ls2005019227]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the thoughts/replies. It is very helpful knowing that multi-function operation is a bit limited with this model, and not just my machine. Following the replies, I went out to give things a shot, barely pressing on the track pedal, while trying to stick in; which does work, albeit slowly.

Any further thoughts on the "vibration" while tracking in reverse? I won't say that it is exclusive to the right side, but it is definitely worse than the left. Not sure that this is the problem, but it almost feels like something is binding, almost to a point of jerking into motion (repetitively). Is there a bearing that could be out?

Thanks,

Robert