CASE CX130 starting trouble

[AtlasRob]

Ok, Heeeeeeeeeeelp Please.

I would normally add this to the running thread involving this machine but its here on its own as I hope it will help others.

Got to the machine this morning and it was dead as a dodo! not a glimmer on the dash.
No drama its been down to -7C and the machine hasnt been touched for two weeks so it was well within its rights to have the hump in my opinion.

Only have 12v on the van so hooked that to one battery with the intention of having a brew ( cup of tea ) then hook it to the other and hope for a start.
I checked the dash with 12v now pumping into one of the machines batteries and still nothing should be something if only a glimmer :beatsme

Disconnected the jump leads and touched the ends together to see how dead the machine was. Had enough juice to start welding, so it isnt the batteries.

Its been wet and its been very cold.

Next to the batteries and behind a cover is this. I went here as thats where all the wires go



Found 3 of 20a fuses and 1 x 65a... all OK :Banghead Couldnt be something easy like a fuse.



I dont know what this gizmo is but 24v in and out at the top and a few little wires at the bottom,...... its comming off,..... and it did.
I sat in the van with it against the heater, dont know why but I thought that might cure it. It warmed me up anyway.
Bolted it back on, reconnected everything and.................still no power.

Time to check the ignition switch, so off came the right consol top.
The plug showed me 4 wires. 2 of them the same as 2 on this gizmo.
Sorry about the focus.
Right wire is white with a red line.
Middle is green with a brown line.

For some strange reason, I suppose I had decided they were supposed to be feeding the switch that was dead. I decided to touch a wire between the battery + and the right wire which resulted in a CLONK made by the gizmo and a buzzer in the cab. When I removed the wire it CLONKED again and the buzzer stopped.
I checked I had connected the ign switch and with the key in the on position tried again.
WE HAD PASSWORD request ( thats the immobilisor ) but a buzzer sounding. Sod it, try it.
It started but I was convinced that when I removed the power from the small wire it would stop. It didnt. So I turned the machine off to make sure it would stop and the buzzer was worrying me. It stopped.

Severe head scratching time.

I tried the + to green brown wire and got a CLONK from the gizmo but it didnt clonk when I removed the power, while scratching my head there was a CLONK and the buzzer stopped. Time delay. Same as delay in dash clearing when the ignition is turned off me thinks.

Connect + to green br wire and start machine, remove wire, machine still running, dash looks ok, throttle works but buzzer is doing my head in and starting to worry me.............................. Spot quick hitch switch has been activated, turn it off, buzzer stops :Banghead

Replace right consol and work machine.

What is the gizmo and is it that I need to replace.? OR is the ignition switch faulty. After running the machine for a few hours I stopped it on the key. It immediately activated the beep, beep, beep to say the immobiliser was activating and then was dead as a dodo again.
+ to green br wire and she fired straight up.

ADVICE please. What do I need to order.

DONT SAY A C@T

 

[special tool]

Komatsu?

 

[bill onthehill]

Well my GUESS would be that gizmo is the immobilizer and it kills the main power to the machine. That said it should pull in with the key if you can energize it with the jumper.So my GUESS would be ignition switch is not sending voltage to it to energize it. It does interrupt the power holding it in so this could be total nonsense. GGraham or Alrman should be able to tell you correctly.

 

[rusty nut]

Your gizmo is called a battery relay switch, and is working. Your problem is it is not getting a signal from your ign switch. You must have an open circuit between your batterys and ing switch or from ing switch to gizmo. Good luck

 

[willie59]

Definitely battery disconnect solenoid. I've seen them wired to disconnect positive power, or ground, depending on how the mfg wanted it wired up. Hard to say for sure by pics, but it look like it's the positive cable going to the solenoid. Hey Rob, you disconnected the cable that comes from the battery to the solenoid in one of the pics. That cable has a wire that's connects to the solenoid along with the cable on the same terminal, that wire is the circuit you want to check. It should go to the ignition switch to it's own terminal, then when you turn on switch, it should transfer power to a different terminal to send a signal back to relay coil. That wire could have an in-line fuse, be sure and check for that.

 

[NWH]

I just went through the same thing on a 9010B. The problem was a broken wire on
the fuse holder under the relay. The wire was corroded at the bottom of the fuse holder.
The stock one takes a special fuse. We just replaced it with one from the napa store.

 

[JoeS1989]

Get a Hitachi! haha

 

[roddyo]

That's your cab solenoid.

I think it's pretty common for them to go out about every 5 to 7, either years or thousand hours on a case. The last one I bought was around $70.00 I think.

Before I done much worrying or poking around I would replace it and go from there. That should get you going.

 

[cps]

I just went through the same thing on a 9010B. The problem was a broken wire on
the fuse holder under the relay. The wire was corroded at the bottom of the fuse holder.
The stock one takes a special fuse. We just replaced it with one from the napa store.

Im thinking the same as NWH, for starters your relay (gizzmo) IS working thats what its doing when you here the clonk!

Apart from that i cant really help you, cos it could be a broken wire anywhere! but i would start with the qoute above as I expect the 9010b is an earlyer similar set up!

Hope this is of some help

CPS

 

[gggraham]

Judging by the picture I'd do some wire clean up. Take the wires right off make sure they are not green and half rotted through. Be sure they are making good contact at the solenoid. But like just about everyone said it's either no power from your ignition switch to the solenoid, or could be a faulty solenoid. Turn the key on and check for voltage at the solenoid, I'm guessing you have none as a jumper wire from the B+ engages the solenoid.

 

[AtlasRob]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. :notworthy

I am looking into both a Komatsu and an Hitachi purely on your recommendations.

I am not an electrical expert at all and had no way of checking for power, or resistance at the time and was not 100% sure where I really should be checking anyway.
With your kind assistance and suggestions I will start with that + wire as suggested by Atcoequip and see if that is giving power to the switch which I suspect it is not.

I had been scratching my head trying to fathom where the switch got its power, which non of you will be suprised at after the bulb performance

I was quite chuffed with myself for actually getting it started.

I wont get near it now until after Christmas but will be sure to update with results.

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Hi Rob,
I have had quite a few encounters with these beasts on Hitachi's.
There have been several bodges done to bypass them, but you may consider doing exactly as I did with my Zaxis 160.

I simply bought a heavy duty Key type isolator switch (the one you normally see on a Volvo dumptruck with an 'L' shaped metal key) they are easily obtained and around £25.

All you need to do is fit the large cables to the two terminals on the new switch and then cover the two small wires with suitable insulation and leave them in case someone wishes to refit a new isolator. (I simply put some heatshrink sleaving over each wire terminal so it could be easily removed)

The benefit of the key isolator is obviously an increase in security, and if you make a simple box to house it in with just the key slot poking through helps prevent it being bridged with a spanner easily.

Only downside I think is that the machine is 'live' so to speak until you turn the key off, but a good operator such as yourself would always turn off and pull the key out at the end of a shift.

Might be added security if you are leaving the machine all week.

 

[AtlasRob]

There have been several bodges done to bypass them, but you may consider doing exactly as I did with my Zaxis 160.

Hi Eddie, I am hoping that the relay is ok. From what others have posted and my understanding of the jumper cable making it CLONK! I am hoping that the problem is, no feed, to the switch. My problem will be finding exactly why

 

[d4c24a]

alternator

i may be barking up the wrong tree
but i seem to remember starting probs on a hitachi ,and it was to do with the alternator telling the machine it was running when it was not ,so not allowing it to start
just thought it may be similar
hope you all had a good christmas
cheers graham

 

[stock]

Sounds like the diodes on the wires firing the ground isolator relay,mind the timer relay that you don't short it out.

 

[RobVG]

Speaking of shorting things out Rob, buy a 24v test light and a cheap multimeter. Might save you from frying something or exploding batteries.

Nice bit of diagnosis by the way.

(What does "chuffed" mean?)

 

[stock]

chuffed  [chuhft]
–adjective British,delighted; pleased; satisfied.

 

[willie59]

chuffed  [chuhft]
–adjective British,delighted; pleased; satisfied.

Thankfully, we have a interpreter...who can speak Gaelic as well! :notworthy

 

[Eddiebackblade]

Hi Rob,
I understood the relay is not getting any power to it to activate it, but my point was that if you were to fit a manual 'key' type isolator instead of the relay then there is no need for any power to activate it anyway.
You are simply turning it on manually, with the added benefit of being able to turn it off and remove the key for security.

As for tracing the fault in the original feed, I can only offer sympathy as I too spent many happy hours on the Zaxis looking for a wiring fault.
Resorted to an Auto Electrician who was reccomended to me and he soon got it sorted.

Good Luck!

 

[AtlasRob]

...... buy a 24v test light and a cheap multimeter. Might save you from frying something or exploding batteries.

:thumbsup I agree. I have one, just not with me when I needed it

Thankfully, we have a interpreter...who can speak Gaelic as well!

Yes, sorry about that chaps, didnt think about it before using the expression.
Thanks stock, you nailed it perfectly
It can also mean something quite different. " have you chuffed "
( passed wind )

Hi Rob,
I understood the relay is not getting any power to it to activate it, but my point was that if you were to fit a manual 'key' type isolator instead of the relay then there is no need for any power to activate it anyway.
You are simply turning it on manually, with the added benefit of being able to turn it off and remove the key for security.

What concerns me slightly is how does the ign switch having activated the relay ( gizmo) let the starter know to turn / throw in the starter solenoid.
I am expecting that when I remove the ign switch and double check the wiring that one of those wires goes to the starter solenoid.

BUT

If I am not getting a feed to the switch ( I hope that is the problem ) then doing away with the gizmo will not solve my problem, me thinks.
To add to my head scratching I cant get my brain around why there are two wires on the bottom of the gizmo that appear to do the same job. :beatsme
There are in fact 3 wires but as playing with 2 got me going I left everything else well alone.

Hopefully a bit of circuit testing will help pinpoint or at least narrow down the problem.
The problem might be as usual.......................in the seat. :beatsme