case 780 impulse buy, so many questions....

[Tyler d4c]

Thanks for sharing that, I just checked it out, another sexy big machine.

I always though I needed one but I certainly do not

 

[Tinkerer]

I can confidently say that you will never find new connecting rods for it.
The same goes for the timing gears.
Crankshaft, probably.
I bought a new camshaft from Abilene machine for my 301.
If you do reassemble it, I would advise you to put the exhaust manifold on the two and torque the bolts BEFORE you tighten the head bolts.
If you don't do that, the manifold may break when it gets hot because the heads are not in perfect alignment with each other.

 

[Shimmy1]

You need to get that engine apart and see what you have before you suffer through any more sleepless nights. No big deal to pull it apart in the tractor, it'll just make it that much lighter if the block has to come out.

As far as the rods, I don't think I've ever heard of rods being an issue in any of these Case engines unless a rod bearing fails. They should be checked for straightness, big end checked, new wrist pin bushings maybe.

 

[1693TA]

If you are operating in soft sandy soil you probably will find that tractor a hindrance to operate with a full bucket. If the front wheels sink or encounter high rolling resistance, the one rear wheel will slip easily. That was a problem with mine and I had the larger 17.5" tires on the steer axle. Couldn't much use it after a rain as you'd be shoving the tractor around with the stick or uncurling the bucket to keep moving. It was just too heavy for practical use IMO. That however in fairness could have been because of the extra weight of the X-hoe on the back.

It was an animal when dry and digging however.

 

[Tyler d4c]

If you are operating in soft sandy soil you probably will find that tractor a hindrance to operate with a full bucket. If the front wheels sink or encounter high rolling resistance, the one rear wheel will slip easily. That was a problem with mine and I had the larger 17.5" tires on the steer axle. Couldn't much use it after a rain as you'd be shoving the tractor around with the stick or uncurling the bucket to keep moving. It was just too heavy for practical use IMO. That however in fairness could have been because of the extra weight of the X-hoe on the back.

It was an animal when dry and digging however.

This moreless sums up why you see the big backhoes on road jobs hard surfaces to drive on a payloads to load trucks and could hang a sizeable hammer of the back

 

[NMBlackBetty]

I can confidently say that you will never find new connecting rods for it.
The same goes for the timing gears.
Crankshaft, probably.
I bought a new camshaft from Abilene machine for my 301.
If you do reassemble it, I would advise you to put the exhaust manifold on the two and torque the bolts BEFORE you tighten the head bolts.
If you don't do that, the manifold may break when it gets hot because the heads are not in perfect alignment with each other.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[1693TA]

That makes sense to me. I sold that 780CK to purchase a 1986 580 "Super E" 4X4 tractor that ran well and the guy backed out afterward on the sale. I think he still has that tractor so can't fault him about it as he was partial. I wound up purchasing a 410B Deere that was very smooth and comfortable to me and my first go round with "Wobble Sticks" for controls. Don't know if I'd ever go back to Case controls after that although my Clark has them but I've not used the machine.

IIRC the main hydraulic pump on that 780CK was 78GPM and the loader cyclical rate was quite fast so loading my dump truck was easy. It was so big it had no problem loading concrete breakout to backfill washouts on bordering properties for farmers.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

If you are operating in soft sandy soil you probably will find that tractor a hindrance to operate with a full bucket. If the front wheels sink or encounter high rolling resistance, the one rear wheel will slip easily. That was a problem with mine and I had the larger 17.5" tires on the steer axle. Couldn't much use it after a rain as you'd be shoving the tractor around with the stick or uncurling the bucket to keep moving. It was just too heavy for practical use IMO. That however in fairness could have been because of the extra weight of the X-hoe on the back.

It was an animal when dry and digging however.

I've been chatting with a friend who builds custom tracks for anything that has wheels. No final decision has been made yet, but he said it would be around $8,000 for him to put tracks on the rear of it in place of tires which would give it several times the traction as well as better weight distribution.

My thought was to run it as is, see how it handles out here in the desert, then make a decision.

 

[1693TA]

I've been chatting with a friend who builds custom tracks for anything that has wheels. No final decision has been made yet, but he said it would be around $8,000 for him to put tracks on the rear of it in place of tires which would give it several times the traction as well as better weight distribution.

My thought was to run it as is, see how it handles out here in the desert, then make a decision.

I liked the weight and performance of the machine when it was dry. It would perform very well and was basically a rubber tired excavator. However driving it down the road with the imbalance that was part of the machine was almost unsafe. It may not apply to you but it wasn't worth starting the engine to push an inch of snow the traction was so bad. You could however pick up and carry an eight foot long section of concrete sidewalk without ever increasing engine speed above low idle. It was very powerful. Ripping tree roots could be done at 1200 engine rpm with sharp edges on a single pull. I did many to build my shop.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

I can confidently say that you will never find new connecting rods for it.
The same goes for the timing gears.
Crankshaft, probably.
I bought a new camshaft from Abilene machine for my 301.
If you do reassemble it, I would advise you to put the exhaust manifold on the two and torque the bolts BEFORE you tighten the head bolts.
If you don't do that, the manifold may break when it gets hot because the heads are not in perfect alignment with each other.

https://www.agkits.com/case-336bdt-504bdt-diesel-connecting-rod-a58579r.aspx?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAwP6sBhDAARIsAPfK_wZNwJk7bCuS-QC7Uh8B1UOXiar14lzv-7zAjIQ4o9Vx2SDlQyKkTaEaApy7EALw_wcB

Found the rods online from a few vendors, also found only 1 place to get the timing gear after calling them, con equip has them for the A336 BDT.

Found gages, cables and sending units from yesterday's tractors, new hydraulic cylinders from case directly. Was pretty lucky yesterday when I started calling vendors.

Still on the hunt for a new turbo, radiator, front rims ( they are dented and bent), and some oddball parts, not to say they will be hard to find, just been busy looking for other parts.

Today is the day the machine is supposed to come home, maybe my wife won't notice it

I think the hard stuff is going to be finding a hood, or making one, this one is missing. Also after I do paint and body, I want to replace the glass with lexan or some other non glass option, every window in the machine is cracked. Lastly I want to get a custom seat in it with some suspension, I have an old, tired, worn out back and the factory seat looks to leave a lot to be desired and mine is torn down to bare metal.

Still have yet to get service manuals for the machine, but that's on the list for this weekend.

This forum has been a great resource as well, I found a lot of answers and resources in old threads, although some of them are outdated now.... what ever happened to e-backhoe parts?

Once I start tearing into the machine I think I am going to start a new thread to document the whole process and share what I find and all the steps.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

I liked the weight and performance of the machine when it was dry. It would perform very well and was basically a rubber tired excavator. However driving it down the road with the imbalance that was part of the machine was almost unsafe. It may not apply to you but it wasn't worth starting the engine to push an inch of snow the traction was so bad. You could however pick up and carry an eight foot long section of concrete sidewalk without ever increasing engine speed above low idle. It was very powerful. Ripping tree roots could be done at 1200 engine rpm with sharp edges on a single pull. I did many to build my shop.

So as a matter of opinion, if the money wasn't an issue, and the machine was never going to leave a ranch operation in the desert, if it were your machine would you just bite the bullet and put tracks on the rear?

 

[1693TA]

No. I think you would be much better suited with an "E" or later series 580 Case myself with 4X4 which is much more rounded. That however is just my opinion. The780CK fit a market at that time but that time has passed with other machines replacing it's dominancy. Now those machines too are aging and becoming affordable to the novice.

Not to be negative at all and you made purchase cheap, I fully understand that. However at this point you have the horse several reign lengths behind the cart and that needs corrected. First thing to do, (again, my opinion) is to ensure that engine will rotate. If it does, check the oil for water fouling by pulling the drain plug and looking. If water, or coolant is found, drop the oil pan and fill the cooling system with a mixture of used but clean coolant, or simply water and an iridescent dye marketed for the purpose. Pressurize the cooling system to 20 psi and from under the tractor look for the leak into the oil pan with a bright UV lamp and the leak will reveal itself readily if one exists. Then address this leak if found.

I feel you need to get onto a systematic approach to making a repair. Again my opinion worth what's paid but you are not on the correct path and I mean nothing negative there. Start by breaking the problem into blocks and find what goes in but doesn't go out, (figuratively). Right now you know as much about that tractor as I do and many on here would like to help you find resolution but you need to align with what is needed done.

Again, just my opinions and I mean nothing negative at all. You've got some good intellect willing to help you but only you can listen. I hope that doesn't sound caustic as not meant to be.

Thanks,

 

[NMBlackBetty]

No. I think you would be much better suited with an "E" or later series 580 Case myself with 4X4 which is much more rounded. That however is just my opinion. The780CK fit a market at that time but that time has passed with other machines replacing it's dominancy. Now those machines too are aging and becoming affordable to the novice.

Not to be negative at all and you made purchase cheap, I fully understand that. However at this point you have the horse several reign lengths behind the cart and that needs corrected. First thing to do, (again, my opinion) is to ensure that engine will rotate. If it does, check the oil for water fouling by pulling the drain plug and looking. If water, or coolant is found, drop the oil pan and fill the cooling system with a mixture of used but clean coolant, or simply water and an iridescent dye marketed for the purpose. Pressurize the cooling system to 20 psi and from under the tractor look for the leak into the oil pan with a bright UV lamp and the leak will reveal itself readily if one exists. Then address this leak if found.

I feel you need to get onto a systematic approach to making a repair. Again my opinion worth what's paid but you are not on the correct path and I mean nothing negative there. Start by breaking the problem into blocks and find what goes in but doesn't go out, (figuratively). Right now you know as much about that tractor as I do and many on here would like to help you find resolution but you need to align with what is needed done.

Again, just my opinions and I mean nothing negative at all. You've got some good intellect willing to help you but only you can listen. I hope that doesn't sound caustic as not meant to be.

Thanks,

No argument here, you are 100% correct in your logic for almost every situation.

There is 100% water in the pan, and a lot of it, which will need to be addressed for sure.

I think what's missing here is that even if the machine ran fine, I would still tear it down to nuts and bolts and rebuild it. I'm not just trying to fix what was broken, although as it is broken that's part of it. I am a life long learner, done dozens of diesel trucks, full restoration and customization. I've always had an itch to do a heavy machine or two but always had a truck to work on. This just happened to fall in my lap as I drove my latest truck project out of the shop after a year long tear down and rebuild.

I will take your advice on finding the leak, it's important to know the where and why. But I am still going to tear the engine out and rebuild it with every new part I can find just for the experience. I find it soothing and relaxing. I'm going to go through the whole machine the same way, may even custom fit an A/C unit, stereo, etc into it. I have some friends who are mechanical engineers and they like to hang out around my projects, I might as well get some use out of it beyond them just drinking my scotch and hiding from their wives.

 

[Shimmy1]

Once I start tearing into the machine I think I am going to start a new thread to document the whole process and share what I find and all the steps.

Why would you do that? Nothing in this thread is out of line, keep it all in one place.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

Why would you do that? Nothing in this thread is out of line, keep it all in one place.

I was thinking because this thread will be 5 or 6 pages in before i even get to the documenting and this has been more a Q & A thread

 

[Shimmy1]

I was thinking because this thread will be 5 or 6 pages in before i even get to the documenting and this has been more a Q & A thread

If you are serious about this venture, this thread will probably turn into 50 pages.


If you and us are lucky, lol.
You have 29 posts.
Nige has over 25,000.

 

[NMBlackBetty]

If you are serious about this venture, this thread will probably turn into 50 pages.


If you and us are lucky, lol.
You have 29 posts.
Nige has over 25,000.

Challenge accepted!

I'm new here, and not part of many forums. The diesel truck forums I am a member of usually want the q&a thread separate than the build thread. I've always found it a bit confusing and would be happy to keep going here.

In other news, the guy I hired to move it showed up in a 1 ton truck with a trailer rated for 16,000 lbs. Not exactly what I expected to move a 26,000lb machine. The truck was smoking all 17 miles and the trailer has a good bend in it now, but I did warn him. I wouldn't have done it to my equipment.

I guess it's home now, that's what matters.

 

[Shimmy1]

We are a special breed here, we prefer all the madness and sadness in one place. Plus, if you have two treads going, some other gumshoe will probably spike the old one with some meaningless drivel, and then Tinkerer will respond to that and away we go down a useless rabbithole.

Better to keep it all localized. JMHO.

 

[Welder Dave]

Pretty insane to overload a trailer by 10,000lbs. It's probably beyond repair if it bent.
Have never seen Tinkerer post anything that wasn't helpful. He see's a post and if he can help he does. Can't fault him for that. Lots of posts aren't technically in the right forum.

 

[MG84]

The rods are probably fine, as I'm sure half the parts I will be replacing in the engine will be, but the same as I do when I have done the old diesel trucks, as long as I have it on apart, I will replace what I can to avoid tearing apart again in the future.

I think you are doing a disservice to yourself with this attitude of replacing everything regardless. You need to tear everything down, clean and inspect what you have, and use everything that is still good. These days ‘new’ parts are often worse quality than the 50yr old OEM part with thousands of hours on it.