Case 580se GLAND NUT won't budge!!!!!

[BY5260]

I decided to fix all the hydraulic leaks on the backhoe. The first one was a "learning experience" but I got it completed and worked my way through the rest of them. Along the way I bought a gland wrench and some large box wrenches. I was feeling pretty good about things until I got to the last cylinder. It's the stabilizer (largest diameter on the machine). Immediately I noticed the pin holding the rod would not budge. I removed both snap rings and tried numerous hammers. It won't move at all. This is the pin holding the hydraulic rod. I've spent days covering it with PB blaster and another oil I read about (I forgot he name but it's super thin and red). Still couldn't get this pin out. I was about read to grind the head off the pin to see if I could remove it. I stopped and just released the hydraulic cylinder on the opposite end where it attaches to the backhoe frame. I know that's not the best solution but "in theory" it should allow me to release the cylinder to replace the seals. This is where the REAL TROUBLE BEGIN! I've tried everything to remove the gland nut. I used an impact wrench with the gland wrench. Didn't work. I bought a 36" pipe wrench and put a 5' cheater on it. Didn't work. I applied more solvent and PB blaster and let it sit for days. I tried heating the cylinder (only had a plumbers torch with MAP gas). I tried hitting around the area with a sledge. I tried using a chisel in the gland holes. Nothing has worked. I finally put a piece of 10" metal conduit on the 36" pipe wrench. Still did not work. I'm out of ideas and I've about resolved myself to the fact I'm going to have to ruin the gland nut to get it out of there. I was going to try cutting it with a hacksaw (starting at the face and cutting through the 1/8" (or so) of metal) thinking if I removed about half of the face of that nut then It might release it. Has anyone ever tried this? I haven't done it yet because I got thinking; the treads are not in the area I'd be cutting away so it might not accomplish a thing by cutting it. Is there something I've missed? Any other suggestions? Can you remove the gland nut by cutting it?

 

[Billrog]

To get this end off took me hrs. I ended up adding another 12' pipe over the one in the pic.

 

[fast_st]

Gland nut wrench with the 3/4 drive saved me a lot of time. Now if you need some cheap heat, a weed burner torch really pours it on fast. Is there a screw on the parting line between the gland nut and the tube? On all of my 580 ones there is something like a #8 machine screw. Clean out the holes for the gland nut, heat the end of the bore up to somewhere around 200F, apply gland nut with a 4' bar on the breaker bar and it should ease right off. Its possible someone reefed it on instead of just snugging it and using the screw to lock it. You might be able to carefully hammer the face of the nut to try and jar it loose.

 

[hosspuller]

Do a search on peening cylinders on this site. Method Seems to have worked for several people.

 

[Delmer]

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?11396-Hoist-piston-end-cap-removal-question

Try this before you mess it up too much. If you don't have a gland wrench like bilrog's, you can cut something out of heavy plate to get leverage on the gland.

 

[BY5260]

Gland nut wrench with the 3/4 drive saved me a lot of time. Now if you need some cheap heat, a weed burner torch really pours it on fast. Is there a screw on the parting line between the gland nut and the tube? On all of my 580 ones there is something like a #8 machine screw. Clean out the holes for the gland nut, heat the end of the bore up to somewhere around 200F, apply gland nut with a 4' bar on the breaker bar and it should ease right off. Its possible someone reefed it on instead of just snugging it and using the screw to lock it. You might be able to carefully hammer the face of the nut to try and jar it loose.

I've put a 3/4 drive on it, in addition to trying the impact wrench. The 3/4 drive had about a 18" handle and I pushed down on it as hard as I could. Nothing moved. I then slid a 6' cheater pipe over the 3/4 drive and put my entire body weight on it. I was "bouncing" on it trying to get it to break loose. Eventually, the gland wrench came loose and I hit the ground hard. I was hoping the neighbors weren't watching. I put the 3/4 drive back into place and put the 10' electrical conduit on it. That pipe alone probably weights close to 70 pounds. I got clear on the end of that pipe and again tried "bouncing on it. It did not break loose. Oh, there is no machine screw in this one. A couple of the others had the screw present but not this cylinder. I cleaned the holes out real well to get the wrench in as deep as possible. I've also tried to hammer the face of the nut and that hasn't worked. I've used a chisel (on the right angle) to try and get it to move just a little. It doesn't move. I'm going to post pictures that may show the challenge I'm up against. I appreciate everyones comments.

 

[BY5260]

That looks just like the gland wrench I bought. I've put several pipes over it to extend it. Still no-go.

 

[BY5260]

I tried peening it a couple of times but because I couldn't get that pin out of the top of that cylinder, I couldn't peen the full diameter. I was able to do about 75% of it. I'm going now to try and get all around it. Wish me luck. It would sure be easier IF I COULD GET THAT PIN OUT OF THERE. I'm going to post some pictures so you can see if anything looks out of normal.

 

[BY5260]

Here's some pictures. The first 3 are the pin that I cannot get removed. I've hit it with various sized hammers and it doesn't move at all. I only took a picture from one side. I could take more if it was helpful. The other 2 pictures are the gland nut. You can see the "notch" in the top of the nut where I placed a chisel and tried to push the nut to release it. It just dug into the gland nut and it didn't turn at all. You'll also notice the marks on the pins. I tried to rotate it with the 36" pipe wrench to loosen it. I could not get it to turn.

 

[bobbyblades]

i had no screw too but found the hole the screw top sheared off leaving the rest inside i drilled it out and she screwed right off

sawzall and or grinder the pin you got three spots to chop it get many blades . pin inside take a beating or got bent and gets scored to point , locks in the groove

hey are you hammering the wrong end the other end gets hammered in to push it out you dont need to hit on the side you got posted ??
the end with the clip or lock pin just a silly question

 

[Jonas302]

At this point you gotta get the pin out so you can bring the cylinder to a hyd shop your probably going to need an acetylene torch to heat it with and blow some holes in the pin the long ways you if there is a gap you might put a thin cutoff disk on a 7 inch grinder or skill saw to slit the pin then maybe you will be able to drive the remaining chunks out it should make them move a lot easier Also your pin end looks mushroomed on the end grind it off before you try to drive it though or it will really be stuck
I suppose you could take a drill to the pin also and see how hard it is the way the pipe wrench bit it maybe not to bad sometimes drilling a hole though will relieve enough pressure wont be easy though

 

[bobbyblades]

hey if heat it up make sure the oil is out it will never get hot enuff with hand torch the oil acts as coolant

are you hammering it out from the other end / is see the mushroom the other end with the clip or lock pin removed

 

[Billrog]

If the end of that cylinder is hammered up from rocks over the years put a thin blade in an angle grinder and cut 1/16" grove all the way around between the tube and the cap I forgot that I had to do that on one of mine once.
If that pin has a grove wore in it getting it out may take plenty of effort. I did have to burn one out on a 580B after 3 days of struggling. If your really going to pound on it maybe weld a nut or something in the center to beat on.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Look fellers that peening deal DOES WORKyou have to keep at it and, unlike some have mentioned, I actually use the ball face of the hammer (say a two pounder) many times lightly is the go and work consistently up and down . . . even mark out the pattern with a texta, takes time but is cheaper than new bits.

What you are actually doing is stretching the metal and increasing the diameter of the tube.

Cheers.

 

[willie59]

Yair . . .

Look fellers that peening deal DOES WORKyou have to keep at it and, unlike some have mentioned, I actually use the ball face of the hammer (say a two pounder) many times lightly is the go and work consistently up and down . . . even mark out the pattern with a texta, takes time but is cheaper than new bits.

What you are actually doing is stretching the metal and increasing the diameter of the tube.

Cheers.

Totally agree Scrub.

But there are some cases, and you may be dealing with such a case, that is, dissimilar metals. Aluminum head in a steel barrel, moisture gets in there, oxidation does its deed, result, God's Locktite. I recently ran across a cylinder in such a condition, fought with it with all my tricks, ended up sending it to my local Cat dealer, even they had a 15 round knock down drag out with all their fancy cylinder benches to bust that gland loose.

As for the pin that attaches the rod to the stabilizer, only one thing will get that pin out, a big torch with a rosebud head. I've ran across that very thing before, takes a lot of heat to get that pin to move.

 

[Delmer]

A few ideas to get that pin out if that's the way you want to go.

Hydraulic press. Oxygen piercing lance/ thermic lance?

Grind the mushroom off the end, use another pin slightly smaller in diameter, hit it with all you have on a sledge hammer.

When that fails, drill the center of that pin to the depth of the ears that are stuck, the cylinder is loose on the pin right, just stuck on the outside tabs. At least half inch diameter, bigger is better, then weld up the hole as fast and hot as you can . That will hopefully expand and deform the pin, shrinking it as it cools. OR drill the hole all the way through the pin, and wash a little more out of the hole with a cutting torch, doing the same thing as welding.

 

[Scrub Puller]

Yair . . .

Willie59

That dissimilar metal thing is a real bummer but I have seen that peening work even there . . . we once had to refurbish a palfinger or similar truck crane that had been mounted on a saltwater barge and we got them all apart.

Cheers.

 

[hosspuller]

I've put a 3/4 drive on it, in addition to trying the impact wrench. The 3/4 drive had about a 18" handle and I pushed down on it as hard as I could. Nothing moved. I then slid a 6' cheater pipe over the 3/4 drive and put my entire body weight on it. I was "bouncing" on it trying to get it to break loose. Eventually, the gland wrench came loose and I hit the ground hard. .

A note on "bouncing" Most people can lift more than their weight. I try to lift rather than push down. When the wrench slips, I straighten up and get a cold drink if the neighbors are watching. :drinkup

 

[BY5260]

i had no screw too but found the hole the screw top sheared off leaving the rest inside i drilled it out and she screwed right off

sawzall and or grinder the pin you got three spots to chop it get many blades . pin inside take a beating or got bent and gets scored to point , locks in the groove

hey are you hammering the wrong end the other end gets hammered in to push it out you dont need to hit on the side you got posted ??
the end with the clip or lock pin just a silly question

I'll check the gland again for a sheared off screw. I looked pretty good and didn't find one. I guess it could be down towards the bottom as that area is harder for me to see with the pin in place. I'll now concentrate on getting that pin out. I'll work to remove it with some cut off blades and a grinder. I did try to remove it from the opposite side of the pictures. I took the picture side to show the pin sticking out further than the leg and to show the pipe wrench marks. There were snap rings on both sides of that pin. That made me think the pin was originally designed to insert/remove from either direction. Thanks for your help.

 

[BY5260]

At this point you gotta get the pin out so you can bring the cylinder to a hyd shop your probably going to need an acetylene torch to heat it with and blow some holes in the pin the long ways you if there is a gap you might put a thin cutoff disk on a 7 inch grinder or skill saw to slit the pin then maybe you will be able to drive the remaining chunks out it should make them move a lot easier Also your pin end looks mushroomed on the end grind it off before you try to drive it though or it will really be stuck
I suppose you could take a drill to the pin also and see how hard it is the way the pipe wrench bit it maybe not to bad sometimes drilling a hole though will relieve enough pressure wont be easy though

I'm going to work to get that pin out. I think I'll use the cutoff on the inside of the leg bracket. If I remove the hydraulic cylinder, and cut the pin on the inside of leg brackets, I hope to push the pins outward with a chisel or punch. I appreciate the comments and help.