case 580c misfire question

[john adams]

Ok so my 74 case 580c had the injection pump all gummed up, i pulled it and got a kit a went through it. it runs and starts good but has a miss in number one cyl., i tried two of the china junk injector nozzles but no change, i checked valve clearance and it was good, i bought a Stanadyne new injector nozzle and still missing and a bunch of white/fuel smoke out the stack. after ir gets warmed up it is a bit less but still too much. Is there any way for the Roosa Master pump to over fuel on only one cyl. ? Before the fuel went bad and gummed it up the engine ran great, no smoke ,no missing. Maybe im an idiot but i did not test the new Stanadyne nozzle to check calibration, i did test the china ones and they were 3300 psi pop off, book calls for 2800 if i remember right, where did i go wrong?

 

[2ndmoto]

Kinda spit balling a bit, but are the fuel lines good? Not clogged? Did you bleed all the air out?

 

[Tinkerer]

IF all else fails----- swap #1 injector for one of the other three that are firing.

 

[alrman]

You really need to perform a compression test as part of your diagnosis, just to be sure you have enough heat there to burn the fuel.

 

[john adams]

Yes Sir, had cleared all lines, bleeds out on all cyls. Even makes a bit of a difference on number one but not like the others.

Kinda spit balling a bit, but are the fuel lines good? Not clogged? Did you bleed all the air out?

 

[john adams]

You really need to perform a compression test as part of your diagnosis, just to be sure you have enough heat there to burn the fuel.

I think it has compression as it is firing partially ,when i crack the line it really misses. i will have to try to find the tool or fitting to be able to test, my test set is for automotive.

 

[john adams]

I may try to swa

IF all else fails----- swap #1 injector for one of the other three that are firing.

p them but just thought getting three new that all did the same thing was odd, of course the china ones are junk but the Stanadyne one i assume was properly set at the factory but maybe they dont come pre-set?

 

[Tinkerer]

If the pump and injector lines aren't super clean, that new injector could be plugged with crap.
Yes they are pre-set.

 

[john adams]

If the pump and injector lines aren't super clean, that new injector could be plugged with crap.
Yes they are pre-set.

Before install of pump, i cleaned all four lines , new fuel tank, new filters, new hose.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I don’t know of any way 1 cyl could over fuel..

 

[john adams]

I don’t know of any way 1 cyl could over fuel..

Thats what i thought after seeing the way the pump distributes fuel, im thinking i need to take the new Stanadyne nozzle out and verify it is set to 2800 as per my manual, correct me if im wrong but wouldnt a higher pop off setting act like late ignition timing on that cylinder hence all the unburnt fuel smoke?

 

[thepumpguysc]

U r correct..
Just plug your injector # in Google.. Spencer diesel usually has the o. p. on theirs site..

 

[thepumpguysc]

How far did you go with your “over- haul”.??
Gaskets and seals.?? or hard parts, mv, dv, dv spring, return connector, pilot tube, did u set the roller to roller..?? How about the vent wire.. did u take it out and seal the threads.??

 

[john adams]

How far did you go with your “over- haul”.??
Gaskets and seals.?? or hard parts, mv, dv, dv spring, return connector, pilot tube, did u set the roller to roller..?? How about the vent wire.. did u take it out and seal the threads.??

i did replace the pilot tube and the vane pump, other than that just cleaned and replaced seals, oh i did put a new check ball assy on the return. tried to put it back like i found it as it was running great until fuel turned to molasses .

 

[thepumpguysc]

where did you get the number for the injectors.??
It’s actually stamped on your old ones.. it’s just above where the pipe meets the body.. you’ll probably need a wire wheel to get the paint off..
Send me THAT NUMBER and compare it to what YOU BOUGHT..

 

[franklin2]

I think it has compression as it is firing partially ,when i crack the line it really misses. i will have to try to find the tool or fitting to be able to test, my test set is for automotive.

The guy that suggested a compression check should not be ignored. These engines don't have sparkplugs, they do fire on compression.

 

[john adams]

where did you get the number for the injectors.??
It’s actually stamped on your old ones.. it’s just above where the pipe meets the body.. you’ll probably need a wire wheel to get the paint off..
Send me THAT NUMBER and compare it to what YOU BOUGHT..

the china nozzles were marked 20671 and of course they could not be adjusted to anything lower than 3300, the original that came out of the machine is marked 20673, the new Stanadyne one i got in it now is also marked 20673. the Roosa Master pump is a dbgfcc 431-58aj,

 

[thepumpguysc]

The originals (20673) pop at 2800 new
Service ((used) at 2600 psi
& r for a 207 engine..

The China injector 20671 say they’re for either a 207 or a 188..on their website..
If u go to a fuel shop website they say for a 188 engine..
So I would make the decision on what engine I had..
There is a Stanadyne service bulletin that states if your going to use the 20671 in sets only, u need to turn the inj. pump up 10%..to accommodate for the higher pressure..
I hope this helps..

 

[john adams]

The originals (20673) pop at 2800 new
Service ((used) at 2600 psi
& r for a 207 engine..

The China injector 20671 say they’re for either a 207 or a 188..on their website..
If u go to a fuel shop website they say for a 188 engine..
So I would make the decision on what engine I had..
There is a Stanadyne service bulletin that states if your going to use the 20671 in sets only, u need to turn the inj. pump up 10%..to accommodate for the higher pressure..
I hope this helps..

Thanks , i will verify the engine size, i will pull the new nozzle and test it just to be sure and try to figure out how i can test compression , im guessing via the hole for nozzle?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Harbor Freight sells a master compression test kit that has a pencil injector adapter..
Don’t get the small kit, that’s only for testing thru the glow plug hole, which u don’t have..