CASE 580C Injection Pump Issue

[CJAMS]

Hi all, 1st time post here on the HE forums.
I have a 1978 CASE 580C for about 13 years with no issues and now it has begun running rough at idle but seems OK above idle and higher. The problem came on slowly over the winter, I first noticed it by having to pull throttle lever a bit to idle and later developed a couple of leaks on the injection lines ( I think from the rough idle and vibrations). I noticed a bit of black smoke intermittently during rough idle (puff here and there). So after thinking about it I replaced the injectors with new ones, same as removed 20671 (A140829). The old ones were all coked up with soot. It now runs much better no black puffs at idle and smoother but there's just something not quite right, idle is still slightly rough. I am thinking that the pump could need to be looked at and wanted to know if it could cause these symptoms, rough idle, puffs of smoke...

I also was looking for a break down of my Stanadyne (Roosa Master) part number, DB0435AJ2837, MFG NO. A136239 to order a reseal kit and any other parts I may need.... online.

Thanks !!! , CS

 

[Theweldor]

You said there were leaks in the injector lines. Are those repaired? Any leak in an injector line will cause a miss. As for the pump.. send it to TPG. I am sure he will be along shortly. There isn't anything in there you can repair not having any experience with them.

 

[CJAMS]

Thanks for the reply, yes the leaks are repaired, new fuel filters. Timing is set 0 TDC as I just replace the engine (207D) timing cover assembly due to anti freeze corrosion.

 

[thepumpguysc]

That pump belongs on a 450A.. Did someone swap pumps??
Theres a lot more to a pump o/h than just a kit.. A LOT more.
The kit # is 24371 & a host of other wear items.

 

[Tinkerer]

Do you have the service manual for your 580C ? Timing the injector pump must be done in precise procedure.
The slack in the timing gears must be eliminated while aligning the timing marks, among other things while doing the installation.

 

[CJAMS]

Thanks for the kit number. I have performed some simple repairs to my other tractor with a CAV DPA pump and am looking to learn a bit on this too. Wondering what the last part of the part number was (2837)..... DB0435.....AJ.....2837. I downloaded a Stanadyne DB Model Pump Manual to guide me, I understand that I don't have a test stand and probably other special tools but am hoping to find a sticky part or maybe the governor rubber part gone. Are their part numbers for these? I've read that a DB2 governor cage would be an upgrade, not sure what's in there now though.

So the pump was in a JD 450? I saw it didn't match the part number in the manual wasn't sure why. I was told the engine had been rebuilt prior to me buying it, possibly swapped then. I do have all of the TLB manuals, backlash wasn't too hard to work out , crank was a bit tough to turn though.

I am going to rotate the engine till the pump timing is set prior to it's removal. Then when I put it on all should line up and the drive shaft is dot to dot.

Thanks! CS

 

[thepumpguysc]

Just wondering.. have you tried adjusted the timing prior to pulling the pump??
or adjusting/readjusting the valves??
It sure doesn't sound like a pump problem..?? {to me}
The flywheel is set at 0 & where are the timing lines in the pump?
The gear train/gears will get wear & just because the flywheel is at 0 doesn't mean the pump is right..
Even at that, you could mark the pump housing if it doesn't have any degree marks & rotate it just a smidge, one way or the other, just to see if your smoke/ruff running clears up.. Just a thought..
The flex ring/rubber part, will come in the kit..
I don't understand what your asking about the #.. 2837?? The manual will breakdown what each # means.

 

[CJAMS]

Several months ago... I had to replace the timing gear cover, was corroded and leaking fuel so I had to remove the gear that turns the pump to do it. Had everything lined up before removing the gear and reinstalled everything but... didn't know it at the time... rolled the seal and found fuel in case. So replaced the cup seals checked timing and still fighting this rough idle. I did set it up at T.C or what was stamped on the flywheel ( had marks for 8, 4, and D.C.) two lines in the pump window one fixed other rotating. I had thought about rotating pump body a bit couple of degrees I suppose but didn't. Suppose I could try it. It does run fine at med to high rpm, nice grey exhaust not dark at all unless you rev it.
The manual I downloaded show the DB larger pump, 4 cyl, 35 dia of piston, and AJ says accessories but nothing for the 2837.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Not important..

 

[CJAMS]

I'll try adjusting the timing before I pull it, nothing to loose there. Good idea! Thanks!

 

[thepumpguysc]

BE SURE & mark the pump flange to the block before loosening any bolts.
Just a simple "scratch mark" will be good.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Do yourself a favor & don't move any screws on the throttle, advance or torque screw & DO NOT REMOVE the leaf spring.. regardless of what "THE BOOK SAYS"... You don't have the proper tools to reset them.

 

[CJAMS]

I went out and ran it today for 15 min kinda seemed better than when I changed the injectors, but I noticed the line in the back next to the block was a little wet. I didn't notice it before because pump was wet from bleeding lines. I've ordered the kit and will install new crush washers next Monday. Maybe my trouble was a leak all along? Instead of rough running causing the leak maybe it started leaking and then running rough? theweldor & thepumpguysc, your #2 & 7 posts about the lines leaking and it not sounding like a pump issue may be right, I'll know for sure when I install new seals. Writing about this has caused me to think about it a bit more which helped including the kit number, Thanks!
(I'll update next week after sealing lines)

 

[thepumpguysc]

IF you can get a torque wrench on them.. its 25-30 FTlbs..
I have a lot of extras that I'd send ya.. but if your gonna get a kit anyway, they come in it.
Good luck.

 

[CJAMS]

Thanks for the torque setting, I'll try to not over torque it. I had to fabricate or at least heat / bend / grind a cheap wrench to get at the 3 mounting nuts to the engine... especially the back one. Is there a special wrench for this... OTC or something else?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes there is a wrench but bending 1 is the cheapest/fastest route.. Just bend it in a slight "U"
I've been in situations where u need 3 wrenches.. an "off-set", a "standard" and a "U".. & u usually have to grind down the box-end of the "U" wrench..
BTW> Always use the box end when u can..
I JUST googled "injection pump removal wrench" & it came right up.. 20.00 on ebay.

 

[CJAMS]

We'll new seals are installed and I can't see anything wrong externally but... a slight miss remains.
Not sure what else I can do but was thinking i will loosen injector lines trying to isolate it to a cylinder.

How does the governor actually operate? It has weights that cantilever, react against a spring and meter fuel. If the governor were sticking could this be seen as a slight loping of engine rpm... I guess that might be what I am seeing???

Thanks for all of your responses and help thus far.
CS

 

[thepumpguysc]

That pump has 1 pumping element for ALL the cylinders.. so having a miss/skip on 1 cylinder is almost impossible.
My suggestion is, get a temp gun & shoot the cylinders when it acts-up.. you might narrow it down that way..
How about setting the valves?? Cracking the inj. lines might find it too..

 

[CJAMS]

Cracking lines did not reveal anything... each cracked line made it idle noticeably worse. I have put some power service diesel conditioner (white bottle all season) in and will see if that improves anything. It just doesn't seem bad enough to down the machine as I use it every other day.