Case 580B - Water In Crankcase

[packratc]

I'm hoping your going to see something that will explain all that water in the pan without it running. Hoping, also, that it's not a crack. Too late to check now, but I wonder if the water level would drop in the radiator and then stop at the same point every time. When it's running you've got compression and heat to help it leak. When it's cold & not running gotta be a hole, crack, or something missing. Am I missing something? Packratc

 

[Gary N]

I'm with you packratc........ hole, crack, or paleeze be a sleeve o ring. This weekend I'll get the other 3 out. I have eliminated the "something missing" because it didn't leak before. Well.....it didn't leak into the case before I changed the water pump but i don't think its that. It sat for over a year plus with no antifreeze and I only started it to move it to an area where i could pressure wash it and change the radiator which also turned into the water pump replacement. It didn't leak when i parked it with the rotted radiator. Arghhhhhh....

 

[Gary N]

By the way....Thanks wille59......that worked like a champ.....
If you currently have the machine in the spot you're going to do repairs, simply drain the cooling system, drain the oil pan, add some fresh oil, start it up and raise loader arms to install safety prop. The extent of time it will take to raise loader arms will only take a few moments, certainly not enough time to even warm the engine up even without coolant.

 

[willie59]

By the way....Thanks wille59......that worked like a champ.....
If you currently have the machine in the spot you're going to do repairs, simply drain the cooling system, drain the oil pan, add some fresh oil, start it up and raise loader arms to install safety prop. The extent of time it will take to raise loader arms will only take a few moments, certainly not enough time to even warm the engine up even without coolant.

Hey, I knew by experience that little trick would make your work a little easier.

 

[Tinkerer]

Here is a link to a thread by Phil, who is an absolute expert Case mechanic and who is AWOL from HEF.
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...ies-burying-goat/page2&highlight=liner+height

 

[ScottAR]

Good catch Tinkerer... I looked earlier but couldn't find it. Read this thread 2-3 times when I worked on my D.

 

[CasIns]

I just went through an out of frame on my 188D. A couple things that may help.

First that bolt under the water pump is not necessary. My machine didn't have one and was fine.

The 188D block has several weaknesses, which I found out personally. They are prone to cracking between the cylinders, among other places. As I found block cracks are very hard to find even when looking, especially on a dirty block. I strongly suggest closely examining your block before ordering any parts - another mistake I made.

Another issue with the 188D is rot around the liners. The blocks can rot past the place where the liner orings seal and then you've got problems. Thats another thing I would check before ordering parts.

My project turned into a real sht show as it progressed, pretty much everything we touched was broken or worn out. After talking with people this is not an uncommon experience. Make sure you know what you've got before you make a big committment of time and money.

 

[Gary N]

Thanks for the info CasIns! I like the part about the water pump bolt. It puts one of my issue's to bed. I hear what your saying on the other issues and crossing my fingers its a bad liner seal. I will know this Saturday.

 

[Gary N]

Well.....I've been waiting for the weekend to get the liners out and inspect the o-rings and block. You guys aren't going to believe this but my dang blocked is cracked on 3 cylinders. Both the top web at the head and the bottom web at the main journals are cracked. I'm sure its a result of me leaving straight water, no antifreeze, in the block last winter when I parked it :crying. I deserve to be posted on "The Wall of Shame". I am currently punishing myself by smoking a good cigar and abusing beer. Soooo....anyone know where I can get a G188D block? I just saw one go on e-bay for $95.00. This is really a bad situation because these old B's don't really justify themselves for dumping a lot of money into them. Here's a scary thought that I would appreciate some feedback on. I have a couple more home jobs I want to do. I want to punch and bury a 40 foot container into a hill side so just the front door is exposed and pull a couple more stumps. Then I can retire her and maybe part her out. What if I slapped it back together with some new sleeve o-rings, gaskets etc. and put in some of those new fangled stop leak products? I just spent around $500 on a new radiator and water pump. What if I put a petcock on the oil drain plug and worked it a couple hours a day, let it sit over night so the water and oil could separate, then drain the water and go another couple hours? I'm in that tough spot between commitment and tractor death. I'm really reaching here aren't I? (Beer must be kicking in) . Looking forward to your guys thoughts and here's a few pics for your viewing pleasure.

On another note, I found a broken bronze bushing laying on the bottom of the bell housing, just under the flywheel. Appears to be about a 1/2 ID. Where in the heck could that have come from? The only thing I see going into the block that might take a bushing that size is the tach cable going to the cam but I don't see how it could have made it down into the block.

 

[Gary N]

I just looked at the pics after the post and they don't do it justice. You have to zoom in to see the cracks on the picture showing all 4 holes and the 1st picture showing the bottom of the hole.

 

[packratc]

Sorry to see the mess you found. I was afraid of something like that. It was just too much water too fast. You might get a really, really good welder to nickle rod weld it but it would be tough and a long shot. The other thing is to glass the block. I've got an old truck I let freeze about 12 years ago. You can see two cracks on the outside of the block. It runs like a top & I never add water. That's probably what I would do. You only venture the gaskets, rings, and maybe 20 bucks. If the rest of the hoe is really good, wait on another good deal on a block or complete engine to come along. Let us know what you do and the outcome. Packratc

 

[Gary N]

packratc, Ya...it was a too much water too fast. I'm sorry but I don't know what "glass the block" means. I'm up for anything.

 

[shopguy]

Well dont worry bout the cracks on top between the cylinders that is common and wont hurt because there is water on both sides of the crack the liner seals aganst the head as for the lower ones i dont think it is cracked into the oil passage or would have a rad. full of oil also you only saw one leak #2. I think i would repair the cracks on or above the o ring area in the block with a good grade epoxy and give the old girl a new life . I think that is a starter bushing in the bell housing.Dont kick yourself too bad ,never seen ice crack on the inside without outside. Good Luck

 

[packratc]

Sodium Silicate. Google it. You remove the thermostat & pour in about a quart of the liquid. The solution gets in the cracks and turns to glass, sealing the cracks. In your case, I would then drain the oil and change it. In my engine I wasn't getting water in the oil. I was leaking water outside of the block from the cracks. You buy this stuff from a drug store. Not all of them handle it so I'd call around to find it. You might find it in a pharmacy that advertises "compounding". Certainly someone else on this forum has used it. Look around on the net and you're bound to see some articles on it. In your case I'd look for people with experience with the glass and when to remove it so it won't contaminate your oil to the point of doing damage. Good Luck! packratc

 

[packratc]

I googled it using "Sodium Silicate in cars" and got all sorts of sites. Don't confuse it with destroying engines for Cash for Clunkers when they replaced the oil in engines with the glass to lock up the engines. You want yours in the radiator. Packratc

 

[Gary N]

Did my homework on the "sodium silicate". Thanks packratc. Been thinking about it all, I'm thinking I'm going put all your guys ideas together and see how many more hours I can squeeze out of her. Gonna pressure wash the block (in frame with crank) real good and focus on the cracks. Gotta get the cracks as clean as I can. I'll try to squirt some acetone through them as well. Blow it out and let it dry good. Then pack the cracks that I can see with some epoxy like shopguy said. Put her back together and then "glass" it. The epoxy will get the major stuff and the "glass" will fill what I don't get with the epoxy. What do you guys think? (that sodium silicate is some scary stuff. Sure don't want to get to much in and gotta flush it back out.)

 

[Gary N]

Quick question guys......should I be able to see holes in my injectors? There still in the head that I took off. They stick out proud of the head and I hope I didn't mess them up dragging the head around when I removed it. I was not aware and it was heavy and awkward getting it off and out. (notice the erosion around one of them)

How can I test them?

 

[packratc]

I took mine to a rebuild place. They bench test them. It only takes a couple of minutes. Didn't charge me for that but sold me two rebuilt ones for about $100 apiece. They put on new rubber seals and, I think, gave me new copper washers for them all. It's been a while and I've had the shuttle apart three times since then. My memory fades with each 100 bill that leaves my billfold. I would guess that the corrosion around the injector was caused by water in the cylinder. Good Luck! Packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Here is a place to get a new one for $45.00 http://www.abilenemachine.com/case-david-brown-tractors-injector-AMA140829.html But don't take my word for it. Make sure it is the correct one for your 188.

 

[Gary N]

So does anyone know where I might find a Case G188D block? I should probably start a new thread with just that question hey?