case 580b 1974 outrigger cylinder rebuild

[elksniper1]

Does anyone have any wisdom on rebuilding the outrigger cylinders? on my particular tractor the outrigger cylinders are located inside of a boxed steel channel and i cannot figure out a way to get to the gland nut and even then how do i get enough ground clearance to just slide the rod and piston/packing out like other cyl? This may entail taking the cylinder out as one entire piece and then repairing? I am pretty sure that I am overlooking something. Thanks Joel

 

[melben]

Do u have a sideshift machine with vertical stabilizers, regular machines have cylinders out in the open and the hardest part of them is getting the lower pin out most of the time, can you post pictures of your machine to give us more guidance?

 

[Ronsii]

I'm guessing you have either an ex county road machine or like melben says a sideshift unit, just remove the cylinder as a whole and then work on it.

 

[elksniper1]

Ronsil it’s not like the unit you pictured. Melbin the side shift I’m not familiar with that either. But I assume that I’m stuck taking the entire assembly out and will still have to figure out a way to get enough ground clearance to get the stabilizer out of the way to then get the unit out.. maybe digging a hole to allow the outrigger pad to swing down once i remove the pin.. Hmm...

 

[elksniper1]

And yes I can happily try to post a picture. It may be awhile due to the fact I’m away from the tractor for a couple days. But I would like to know what type of backhoe it is called that for sure. I know I have the serial number from the hoe the tractor and the loader I never thought to look it up via the backhoe serial number. I assumed case only made one design for the 580b.once again Hmmm...

 

[alrman]

With the type of configuration shown above -

• you lower the foot to the ground, making sure there is none of the machine weight on it
• remove the two hoses going to the cylinder & cap them off. This will stop the rod from extending during removal.
• remove the lower pin at the foot & upper pin at the cylinder
• attach a lifting device to the cylinder & raise it out the top of frame.

 

[Ronsii]

And yes I can happily try to post a picture. It may be awhile due to the fact I’m away from the tractor for a couple days. But I would like to know what type of backhoe it is called that for sure. I know I have the serial number from the hoe the tractor and the loader I never thought to look it up via the backhoe serial number. I assumed case only made one design for the 580b.once again Hmmm...

So.... do your stabilizers go straight up/dn? or do they hinge and your saying the cylinders are in some tube???


Or do they just have some sort of guarding on them?

 

[elksniper1]

My stabilzers are hinged under the swing arm and the rams travel vertically. the cylinders themselves are encased fully in tube steel and appear to be factory designed there isn’t a way to lift them up and out that I can see. I’m surprised that this isn’t a common type as everything else on this tractor seems to be original. The only other oddity is that it is a dry clutch tractor Wich I’ve learned was not very common as well. We’re there different backhoes for dry clutched units? I’ll see if I can get someone to get a picture to me today and hopefully that will better explain the questions. Thanks for your time so far.

 

[elksniper1]

here we go I got the pics.
The view from operator seat has the cylinders housing circled. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated

 

[Ronsii]

Looks like a sideshift machine to me

 

[elksniper1]

Ok well with my unit being a side shift can I go inquire what are the adv disadvantages of this design ?
And wil I have enough clearance to get this cyl out from below?
I still can’t see how that’s possible without raising the tractor on that one side significantly. Or like stated relief. Maybe digging hole ?? Thanks for all the info so far

 

[elksniper1]

edit to the previous reply
“ stated”before, digging a hole
Not (relief ) sorry

 

[alrman]

Wow! That is a strange design!
As far as I can figure, If I had to remove the stabilizer cylinder, I would remove the actual stabilizer leg either by itself or with the cylinder - as it will be in the way of the cylinder removal process - to lower it out of that tube.
But don't dig a hole -

1. prepare the cylinder/leg mounting pins for removal (hopefully not seized)
2. either remove the leg pivot pin & the cylinder rod pin & use a jack to remove the leg
3. or lower the leg to the ground & remove the leg pivot pin
4. disconnect the 2 x hoses & cap them off
5. remove the upper cylinder mounting pin
6. then with the hoe in the centre position & with biggest bucket fitted - use the hoe (& a competent operator) to raise the rear of the machine off the ground to give sufficient clearance to remove the cylinder & CHOCK THE REAR OF THE MACHINE UP UNDER THE REAR WHEELS USING SOME GOOD SIZED TIMBERS & THEN MAKE SURE YOU THEN CHOCK THE FRONT WHEELS TO PREVENT THE MACHINE ROLLING - the loader bucket should be slightly raised while doing this - but not too much as it will help stabilize the rest of the machine during the lift process
7. Think safety - Think safety - Think safety

If you feel unsure about doing it this way...... then the hole is the only other way to go

 

[elksniper1]

Ok thanks you. That does sound like the best option. Now I juts have to figure out how much clearance I will need. I surely wish I had exposed cylinders that’s for sure juts getting the pins out. The top one specifically , will Probaly take as long as the entire rebuild process. As there is no access to drift it out if it’s not in the mood to fall out on its own free will.. ugh. Well thanks again and I’ll let ya know how it goes.
Final question if anyone is familiar with this design What are the advantages of this heavy design (sideshift)

 

[alrman]

The advantage of the side shift is that you can slide the hoe to one side & with the machine parallel to a fenceline or wall of a building dig a trench only inches away from them.
There is a disadvantage the if the hoe is shifted to one side & you then swing to the same side, with a full bucket of dirt - it is very easy to tip the machine on it's side if you don't know what you are doing.
In saying that, I have watched many experienced operators doing exactly what I said - working at full speed with the opposite wheel 2 feet off the ground - but really these guys really know their machine & it's balancing points!

 

[elksniper1]

O

 

[elksniper1]

That makes sense on the design And I agree with your recommendation of working slow and carefully as I’m not exactly in a hurry. It’s faster than my hand shovel so that saves me a ton of time right there. Thanks for your time and info.

 

[elksniper1]

ok I safely raised the rear end using the outriggers as the hoe wouldn't raise it ,may need to address the pump and spools at later date, have it blocked securely and spent an entire day trying to get the upper cylinder pin to budge.(unsuccessfully) I tried heating to just below cherry red tapped and soaked with penetrating oil let cool and tried to rotate and remove. its just laughing at me so far. the location of the bosses isn't very accessible I am able to spray some pb blaster on the most inward side via a zerk access hole. the cylinder freely rotates on the pin so im pretty sure that the pin is frozen inside the bosses. im looking for ideas prior to cutting my way into back side to drift the pin out. as this idea is going to require some cutting and re welding strucutal parts of the hoe.
next two options I am considering are welding grade 8 or better bolt and using washer to pull the pin. or maybe welding a single nut and using impact gun to try to get the pin to rotate and assume after that I can remove. Has anyone had better luck with one or the other? any ideas are appreciated thanks

 

[elksniper1]

Here is pics of the pin.

 

[Tinkerer]

Are you heating the pin ? That would make the pin swell and get even tighter.
Are there bushing in the frame ?
I just saw the photo.