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Case 580 B?? Starter Grinding Ring Gear

Grady

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
573
Location
NH
It looks like a B to me. I have a CK and a C and that one has aspects of both - but it's hard to tell from one picture. You aren't going to enjoy changing that ring gear. To get it on the trailer, you can try the Delmer approved method of putting it in neutral - making sure it is not able to start by pulling the fuel shut off even though it is unlikely to start by rotating it so slowly - and reach in and grab a fan blade and the fan belt at the same time and rotate the engine to a spot where the ring gear is still good - and give it a go. Don't forget to push the fuel shutoff back in before cranking it over. You may want to consider more of his advice here: https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/case-580b-flywheel-question.38789/

I recently bought a new starter for my CK. It has the 188D diesel engine. I don't have the number handy but I could come up with it in a day or so if necessary. I found a couple different types of starters - one was like the original starter and the other is a high torque / gear reduction type. I got the second one. It's supposed to be a better design. I also read somewhere that someone's 10 tooth could replace the stock nine tooth because the shaft was offset. Don't ask me how that works but it probably does.

Your starter may be fully engaging but then running into an area of damaged ring gear so a new starter may not help much and changing that ring gear is a big job. I'd change the whole torque converter, rebuild the shuttle, change the clutch, etc. if it has one, and check the ring and pinion while the tractor is split. You won't want to go back in anytime soon. Good luck.
 

Coy Lancaster

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,987
Location
Arkansas
Occupation
service tech
The serial number tag is on the steering column on right side, if it is missing the number is stamped in the front bolster (radiator housing) on left side. The loader serial number is on the left side where you step up on the machine, the backhoe serial number is on the back left side just above the stabilizer. If the backhoe is a 33 it will only have one boom cyl. the 35 will have two boom cyl. on the outside of the boom.
 

Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
Grady:

Appreciate the response, unfortunately all the teeth are chewed up like in the picture I posted. I might try and file them down some, I need to find out what bendix I should have, mine is a 9 tooth.
 

Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
Coy:
Thank you appreciate that! So, now that I have my serial number and know what starter I have, how do I determine weather or not its the correct on for this machine?
 

Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
Delmer:
That is what I have been thinking, this thing should still engage and start. I need to confirm I have the correct starter first of all, then I will get cozy with my file and start making that ring gear pretty again. The guy I bought this from didn't have a ton of information because it belonged to his neighbor who has passed away, so no idea on the old starter or reason for taking it off. This particular starter has been rebuilt so I believe its the same one that was taken off the machine. The starter will just engage for a second, just long enough to turn the engine enough so you know it isn't seized up but then kicks out and grinds against the ring gear.
 

Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
Tinkerer,
Thanks a million! So does this machine take a 9 tooth Bendix? Or 10? I had the starter tested but I will replace that solenoid, put a new battery and check all connections. I will also take a file to the ring gear to ensure that is cleaned up and looking good!
 

Tinkerer

Senior Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Messages
9,376
Location
The shore of the illinois river USA
Unfortunately I have no way of knowing how many teeth the bendix should have.
The parts book shows only 135 tooth ring gears and a 9 and 10 tooth starter. :(
Use the one you have.
I'm suspicious the ring gear is in the condition it is because the bendix gear may be the wrong one.
Eventually when you put a new ring gear on the flywheel you will know from the sound of it turning weather or not the correct bendix gear is in place.
 

Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
I did find this, looks like I possibly to need to swap that Bendix gear out....
 

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Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
This one says 9 tooth and 135 is a terrible fit, I know this isn't for Case but seems like it should hold true....
 

Attachments

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Cessna49

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
52
Location
Wasilla Alaska
DMiller:
Could that allow the crank to move back that far? I haven't heard this thing run yet so that is definitely a possibility :(
 

Delmer

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8,891
Location
WI
I sure hadn't thought of the crank moving, for that matter the flywheel could be loose on the crank, or the ring gear could have moved on the flywheel.

More likely something is wrong with the starter, I'd be measuring everything until you find out why the full width of the gears aren't engaged like they should be.

Take nothing for granted at this point. when they test the starter, it's usually just spin testing isn't it? no load put on the gear or drive. That's the end that takes the abuse so fails most often and isn't working now.
 
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