Case 450 crawler wire size for rewire

[ianto36]

Hi
I'm restoring a case 450 crawler loader and would like any guidance of the spec of wire that I would need to carry out a rewire of the dash instruments.

Thanks
Ian

 

[Dave Neubert]

14-16 gauge

 

[ianto36]

14-16 gauge

Brilliant thank you Dave!

 

[sawmilleng]

Well...you can make this as simple or complicated as you want. Depends if you want a reliable system that isn't susceptible to vibration and gives you proper lighting (if you are doing lights on your rig)

Wiring size is dependent on the amount of current that is expected to flow in each wire AND the desired robustness of the wiring harness. For running a guage, like an electric fuel guage, a small wire like #16 is fine, since the current is low, likely under a few amps.

On the other hand, if there is an ammeter on the machine that will register charging current, that wire may need to handle 30+ amps at times, and the wire needs to be larger--something like No. 10 wire.

Lighting should be considered as well. If the lights are "old style" (not the newer LED lights) they will take some power, especially if you are like me and like lots of light when night riding. Don't forget that if there are several lights on a circuit the amps will add up. Also, since the wiring can be quite long to get to some lights, don't forget that the electrical resistance in the wire will reduce the voltage at the light if the wiring is too small. (so the light won't be as bright as it could be.)

My rule of thumb for wiring size more-or-less follows house wiring sizes: No. 16 is good to 10A, No. 14 is 15A, No. 12 is 20A and No. 10 is 30A

The other thing to consider is the robustness of the wiring. If your 450 vibrates as much as my 580B Case there might be some things to consider for longevity of the wiring, at least in avoiding breakage.

Most of the concern about vibration comes from how the wire is supported. A lot of the dash wiring is short and supported basically at each end by the end terminals. Longer wiring can be helped by grouping wires together and using ty-wraps to hold them.

For the end terminals, lots of people like to use the common crimp terminals that are fast but so-so for reliability. BUT the crimp terminal only really supports the copper wire and does not grab the insulation. There are better quality terminals that have a heat shrink that can grab the wire insulation once the crimp is made, which transfers some of the loading to the insulation from the copper. What you don't want is for the vibration to be able to work on the bare copper wire alone. Copper does not like vibration.

I like using bare wire connectors and soldering them, following up with heat shrink tubing. But I have 'way more time than money so each to their own.

The size of the individual strands of copper wire that make up the wire is another consideration. To avoid complication here, lets just say that the wiring that is intended for mobile equipment or vehicles should be used as the individual strands are of a size that works fairly well for most mobile applications. As you are probably aware, house wiring uses a lot of single strand conductors but they also see pretty well zero vibration. On the other extreme, cables that have to flex a lot have very small conductors--such as in a welding cable.

Also, using wire that might be a little oversized for what power it is carrying can help simply because there is more copper (=stronger wire) to resist vibration.

Your mileage may vary, but that is how I approach wiring my mobile equipment.

Jon.

 

[ianto36]

Well...you can make this as simple or complicated as you want. Depends if you want a reliable system that isn't susceptible to vibration and gives you proper lighting (if you are doing lights on your rig)

Wiring size is dependent on the amount of current that is expected to flow in each wire AND the desired robustness of the wiring harness. For running a guage, like an electric fuel guage, a small wire like #16 is fine, since the current is low, likely under a few amps.

On the other hand, if there is an ammeter on the machine that will register charging current, that wire may need to handle 30+ amps at times, and the wire needs to be larger--something like No. 10 wire.

Lighting should be considered as well. If the lights are "old style" (not the newer LED lights) they will take some power, especially if you are like me and like lots of light when night riding. Don't forget that if there are several lights on a circuit the amps will add up. Also, since the wiring can be quite long to get to some lights, don't forget that the electrical resistance in the wire will reduce the voltage at the light if the wiring is too small. (so the light won't be as bright as it could be.)

My rule of thumb for wiring size more-or-less follows house wiring sizes: No. 16 is good to 10A, No. 14 is 15A, No. 12 is 20A and No. 10 is 30A

The other thing to consider is the robustness of the wiring. If your 450 vibrates as much as my 580B Case there might be some things to consider for longevity of the wiring, at least in avoiding breakage.

Most of the concern about vibration comes from how the wire is supported. A lot of the dash wiring is short and supported basically at each end by the end terminals. Longer wiring can be helped by grouping wires together and using ty-wraps to hold them.

For the end terminals, lots of people like to use the common crimp terminals that are fast but so-so for reliability. BUT the crimp terminal only really supports the copper wire and does not grab the insulation. There are better quality terminals that have a heat shrink that can grab the wire insulation once the crimp is made, which transfers some of the loading to the insulation from the copper. What you don't want is for the vibration to be able to work on the bare copper wire alone. Copper does not like vibration.

I like using bare wire connectors and soldering them, following up with heat shrink tubing. But I have 'way more time than money so each to their own.

The size of the individual strands of copper wire that make up the wire is another consideration. To avoid complication here, lets just say that the wiring that is intended for mobile equipment or vehicles should be used as the individual strands are of a size that works fairly well for most mobile applications. As you are probably aware, house wiring uses a lot of single strand conductors but they also see pretty well zero vibration. On the other extreme, cables that have to flex a lot have very small conductors--such as in a welding cable.

Also, using wire that might be a little oversized for what power it is carrying can help simply because there is more copper (=stronger wire) to resist vibration.

Your mileage may vary, but that is how I approach wiring my mobile equipment.

Jon.

Wow thanks so much for the in depth advice and a few factors to consider, really appreciate the time you’ve taken and length of response and hopefully it will be helpful to other members on here with restos.
Thanks
Ian

 

[Cat977]

Jon
I agree very well done! I haven't done it myself, but premade sleeves or those split curly tubes may neaten up the work. Going thru sheet metal I believe in grommets.