Case 207 Woes

[ScottAR]

The back story first. My Case 580d has been parked at
our property all winter. I had a small rad leak last summer
and topped it off with water. With winter approaching, I drained off some of the coolant and topped it off with antifreeze. I thought I had enough in it but apparently not.
I went to move it Saturday and it began puking water/oil mix out the draft tube in the valve cover. Other than this problem, the engine ran and sounded the same as it always has, no strange noises or low power etc.
There are no external cracks or anything out of place.

I pulled the valve cover Sunday thinking I might have pushed out a cup plug in the head as this has happened
before but found them all in place. So, this leads me to
the question. What next?

I got some good advice from Atco in the chatroom about
leaking liner Orings and I plan to check that out if I can
get the oil pan off. After that, pull the head and send
out for inspection? if the head comes back ok, then what?

Some days it just don't pay to play :Banghead

 

[Phil]

So did you find any water in bottom of the oil pan or not? Phil

 

[ScottAR]

Yes, I did. A large amount.

 

[Phil]

With the oil pan off, you should get a clear view. Adding about 10psi of air pressure to the coolant system, might help speed things up. Don't take your cylinder head off until after the pressure test. Hopefully the cylinder block has not cracked for any reason. Phil

 

[claycuddles]

Hi Phil, I just got to the forum. I aquired a 580 D which the original owner said has water getting into the oil which is in fact is true. He indicated he had the head professionally reworked but to no avail, still water in the oil. I noticed you indicated that if the oil pan is off you can get a clear view. If I remove the pan what am I looking for? I have been told that usually the culprate is near cylinder number 4 where the water returns. What are your thoughts?

 

[alrman]

Welcome to HEF claycuddles!
Phil is AWOL at moment - we're hoping to hear from him soon. The 207 has wet piston sleeves, fitted with oring seals & coolant in the sump often comes from this area.
With the sump off & radiator still filled with coolant, you should actually see coolant leak source. Often there is a stain which is a clue & sometimes a little pressure is required in the radiator for the leak to appear. The cause could be the seals, or an actual hole in the liner, usually there is some damage at the block where the seals live. Either way liners need to be pulled to repair & it often pays to do all 4.

 

[claycuddles]

Thank You for your response.

Welcome to HEF claycuddles!
Phil is AWOL at moment - we're hoping to hear from him soon. The 207 has wet piston sleeves, fitted with oring seals & coolant in the sump often comes from this area.
With the sump off & radiator still filled with coolant, you should actually see coolant leak source. Often there is a stain which is a clue & sometimes a little pressure is required in the radiator for the leak to appear. The cause could be the seals, or an actual hole in the liner, usually there is some damage at the block where the seals live. Either way liners need to be pulled to repair & it often pays to do all 4.

I apprecaite your response. I have another question, if the block is bad is it shot?

 

[alrman]

If block is eaten out badly with electrolosis it can be repaired at a machine shop by having a sleeve fabricated & fitted. If it's not too bad, some JB Weld or a similar epoxy can be used to fill the craters - it's probably the repair done by most.

 

[ScottAR]

I guess I should have updated this thread when I actually pulled the engine apart and inspected last springish. After we pulled the head off and removed the liners we found the above mentioned O-rings to be in bad condition. Time and heat cycles had done their work and the rubber was brittle. We replaced the O-rings with some hand dish soap for lubricant reinstalled the liners which looked to be in good shape. Buttoned her back up and to date no fluids have mingled. I do recomend a service manual for this job as it helps greatly but do post questions if you decide to dive in there.... I went into my engine once before and we learned some time savers for the second time in.

 

[turbotech]

Did you make a tool to pull the liners or have someone else do it?

 

[Tinkerer]

If you are careful the liners can be removed by putting a soft aluminum rod on the bottom of the liners and then pound them out. as soon as they move about two inches they will slide out fairly easily. Phil had posted this procedure in a thread a while back and I remembered it. I just removed four of them in my own engine last Saturday doing it like that. Years ago I took new liner to a local machine shop and he made a real nice puller out of a piece of 3/4 inch thick round stock. It was not real expensive. I can't say that it worked any better than Phil's method.

 

[ScottAR]

I had a "bridge" made at the welding shop out of scrap, ordered up a piece of B7 (hard) all thread that matched a 3 jaw claw type puller we had at work for a slide hammer. Some big truck lug nuts and a couple washers and we were in business. For the install we tapped em most of the way in with a block of wood and walked em the rest of the way with short bolts. Feeler guage and a fingernail to set the liner protrusion...