Case 1150H ignition just dies, kills motor

[silverstr8p]

Today we were pushing on a road just like normal and my Case 1150H just died cold, like you pulled the key out and threw it in the bushes.

Then, if you keep the starter running, the engine will run, but when the key springs back to the run position the engine dies.

So, to move it out of the road so we could get the truck past, we held the starter running creeped forward, but to do that we had to use a piece of wire to hold the switch on the emergency brake so it would engage the transmission.

Then after a couple minutes it started working like normal again, but with about half power. Where should I start looking? It seems like maybe the fuel solenoid or ignition switch is somehow getting disconnected, like a wire fell off or a relay is failing or? Where should I start?

 

[Vetech63]

Take the wire off of your shutoff solenoid at the injector pump. Install a replacement wire from the solenoid to the engine starter where your positive battery cable is hooked up on the starter solenoid. This will give you power to your shut off and allow the engine stop solenoid to run outside of its normal circuitry. If the engine runs like normal, then your solenoid is ok and you have a wiring/connection issue. If the engine continues to run rough, it could be your solenoid......or another fuel/electrical problem.

 

[Delmer]

That's a cummins engine that's known for a bad solenoid in the dodge world, I'd do a little searching of the dodge cummins forums for your problem and see if the pictures match up with your injection pump and solenoid.

External solenoid? use the wire to hold the solenoid open instead of using the starter.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Vtech> if he does THAT, he's energizing the "pull coil" on the sol.. It'll burn up quick.. {300.-350.00}
I suggest just grabbing ahold of it.. pulling it up & wiring it up & out of the way.. no electric involved..
Just my .02..

 

[silverstr8p]

Thanks for this, I'll run up and try it. I broke the throttle linkage on the injector pump awhile back, I wonder if it somehow bumped the solenoid and it failed later? Does anyone have a picture of what I'm looking for?

 

[Delmer]

What injection pump do you have? easiest is to search for "cummins fuel solenoid problems images" and look for one that looks like yours.

You're not alone, others have dealt with this embarrassing problem, and posted their results online for the benefit of all.

 

[silverstr8p]

Bosch, here's an old picture, I don't know where I'm looking on the pump though. In the picture is the vice grip we had to use to limp it back to the shop when the throttle linkage broke.

 

[Delmer]

What's behind the NAPA filter? does that rod go to a cylinder thingy with some wires? Either that, or it's that round thingy under the vice grips. It should have three wires going to it, and a rod going to one of the shafts on the injection pump. Pull the rod tight and hold it with a wire, if it runs then it won't shut off till you remove the wire.

 

[silverstr8p]

I'm not up by the dozer now, but will look when I am there.

Shouldn't there be a relay that has to energize to make the thing run, like maybe in that bank of 5 relays near the fuse block?

In the book it shows a fuel solenoid somewhere up in front of the engine by the radiator, but the picture isn't very clear and I couldn't figure out what was really going on, but that didn't really make sense. The injector area makes more sense.

 

[Delmer]

The injection pump is not that far from the radiator... that pump is mechanical as far as I can tell, there should be two shafts coming out of the injection pump, one is the governor, and the other is the shut off. The governor HAD a linkage that went to the "throttle" control. the shut off solenoid is connected to the injection pump with a much shorter linkage, I can't tell what it is from the angle of that picture.

Yes, there is a relay to control the shut off solenoid, that is a logical place to diagnose if that's the way you want to do it. There's probably two windings in the shut off solenoid, one pulls in while the starter is activated, and one holds in while the ignition is on. SOUNDS like you lost the hold in part of the solenoid while the pull in still works. Checking the voltage and continuity of the hold in coil will tell you if you have a burned out coil, or a wiring/relay problem. Coils will sometimes fail hot, then work again for a while when cold. Using a wire to hold open the solenoid is a solution that's better than holding the key on. It also is a good place to start the diagnostics, if it still runs rough with the solenoid wired, then you have other problems.

 

[thepumpguysc]

On the OTHER SIDE of the vise grips/pump and DOWN, is the shut off lever..
Just reach around the back of the pump & its right there..
I can see part of it in the pic.

 

[Vetech63]

Vtech> if he does THAT, he's energizing the "pull coil" on the sol.. It'll burn up quick.. {300.-350.00}
I suggest just grabbing ahold of it.. pulling it up & wiring it up & out of the way.. no electric involved..
Just my .02..

Your right! I was thinking he had that Rooster Master type.......lol. I need to ask for pics next time so I know what pump people are talking about.

 

[Bluox]

On the OTHER SIDE of the vise grips/pump and DOWN, is the shut off lever..
Just reach around the back of the pump & its right there..
I can see part of it in the pic.

Are you talking about the doohickey behind the governor thingy
or the whatchamacallit behind the filter thingy ?
Bob

 

[Mobiltech]

When I look at that picture I just want to move that black plastic line or cable that is rubbing through on the top of the pump.

 

[silverstr8p]

Here's a different picture I took awhile back:

Here's the nameplate for it. Took awhile to find the linkage replacement.

Here's the temporary fix, I wonder if it somehow also broke a sensor:

 

[Delmer]

Do you SEE any #$%& sensors? You got your answer in post #11 where the shut off shaft is (hint: he's not THE pumpguy for nothin). I explained how it works as I understand it. What more do you want?

 

[silverstr8p]

The rain to stop so I can get up the muddy road to look at it again, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[silverstr8p]

Okay, I got it running, but it was a process. First of all, thanks for this:

does that rod go to a cylinder thingy with some wires? Either that, or it's that round thingy under the vice grips. It should have three wires going to it, and a rod going to one of the shafts on the injection pump. Pull the rod tight and hold it with a wire, if it runs then it won't shut off till you remove the wire.

So I was able to apply the "strategic bailing wire special tool" and hold the thing in and got it running, here's a couple pictures of what you're looking for (if somebody else is trying to do this). There's a yellow bracket underneath the top stuff that's pulled toward the front of the engine by the solenoid (well, if it works) that allows the engine to start.

Here's the other end.

So how in the world do you get that thing out, remove the pump? Sounds hard. Anyone got a better idea. Is there any particular reason this solenoid is needed at all and you couldn't just apply a more permanent bailing wire option?

Also, there's a random extra wire sticking out of the harness where it plugs in, not sure where this wire is supposed to go:

The weird thing is that even after wiring the fuel solenoid, you still can't start the dozer with the key. The way we got it running was using a screwdriver and wire to jump the starter relay after holding the position switch under the transmission brake thing that you have to hold up to make the dozer move with another piece of bailing wire. I thought maybe the ignition switch was bad, so I pulled the connector off the ingition switch and jumpered across the battery wire to the one that's supposed to go to start the motor and that didn't work. Here's the wiring diagram page, what am I missing?

 

[Delmer]

It looks like you have two brake relays and a neutral start switch that could keep your starter relay from getting power. Unless you jumped the solenoid on the starter, then there's the starter relay too. At least you have a good wiring diagram.

 

[Delmer]

I wouldn't take that soleniod off until you know it's bad, that is, it's getting the run and pull in voltage and not pulling in and then holding with the run voltage. It should crank fine with that solenoid completely removed, and run if the shut off is held open, so that's a hint that you have other electrical problems than the solenoid.

Since you didn't have the hold in part of the solenoid working, I'd go back to the key switch and check if the RUN/IGN terminal is getting power, since that feeds power to the fuel shut off solenoid hold in and those relays. Then follow that wire to the neutral start switch, and so on.

If you're not familiar with diagnosing with a multimeter, then look at a power probe on youtube, it makes this kind of diagnosing much more straightforward and intuitive, vs thinking out everything you're trying to test with volts vs ohms.