Cascadescaper need help!

[steven101]

Let me start by saying hello to everyone
My question is for CS or any body that is knowlegable in excavating.
I recieved a call a couple of days to excavate an area of 21x21x5. I have never done a job this big. I will be renting a Cat 301 with a 12 in bucket with teeth or a bobcat bobcat 223 with a 24 inch bucket.
The reason for these 2 is because I will be hauling one or the other on a 14ft trailer,and i
dont want to overload it. If somebody could chime in and help me with a ball park figure on how much time it will take to excavate this area.
Thank you for you time. And let me add,that this is a great site!!

 

[digger242j]

I will be renting a Cat 301 with a 12 in bucket...

You will quite literally go mad, trying to move that much dirt with a 12" bucket. :Banghead

Outside of that, the time factor will depend on some other factors, like whether you're loading the spoil into a truck, or keeping it on site. A hole that size will make a fair sized pile of dirt--if the machine isn't big enough to cast it all the way out of the way, you're going to be moving it twice, or more. (And that goes for any given machine digging any given hole.) Do you have any idea of how the digging is? Soft dirt will go faster than rock, (which you could find even at a shallow depth.) Operator proficiency is a big factor too. If this is your first time, you'll spend some time learning.

Give us some more background, and we can answer more specifically.

And welcome to the forums!

 

[jazak]

Do you have any pics of the area that needs to be excavated??

 

[steven101]

Thank you guys for responding,
Digger242j the area in question is all open, it will be stockpiled.
What I had planned to do is, excavate and move it to another area with a skidsteer (got a helper).
As for rocky soil its not very common here.Mostly clay and soil.
This is about my third time doing a excavating project. BY ALL MEANS I AM NOT AN EXEPERT LIKE YOU GUYS. I would consider myself a beginer.
What about the bobcat 223 with a 24in bucket? or what excavator do you guys recommend (bare miniumim)?

Thanks Jazak for responding too. But i dont Know how to upload pictures:cussing

 

[dayexco]

81.66 cubic yards. at 5' depth, how much reach do the mini's have? how much of a flat bottom can you grade at 5' deep is what i'm asking. plug in your rental rate of the excavator, the fuel, consumeables, total cost of your laborer, your overhead, how much you pay yourself, % of profit your company wants to make. voila! that's what you charge them!

 

[digger242j]

Bobcat 223? I can't find a 223 listed on their website. (I don't have an encyclopedic knowlege of brands and models in my head like some of the members do, so I'm not saying there isn't a 223, but are you sure you've got the number right?)

You said a 14' trailer. What's the weight capacity of the trailer? Could you get the rental house to deliver one, if you could use something bigger?

I can walk you through uploading pictures if you want to post any.

plug in your rental rate of the excavator, the fuel, consumeables, total cost of your laborer, your overhead, how much you pay yourself, % of profit your company wants to make. voila! that's what you charge them!

I think Steven is trying to get a handle on whether he's going to be renting the excavator for one day, or three, and he can probably do the math from there. It always seems that having confidence in the numbers that you're going to plug in is the hardest part for guys that ask for this kind of advice.

 

[Tigerotor77W]

I thought the 223 was the series before the 300-series, but then I realized that the 323 is a new model, so there was no "before-300 series" x23.

Perhaps you could clarify this, so we know how big the machine is.

 

[steven101]

Thank you Dayexco
bobcat 323 has a reach of 154in.
As for flat bottom, it does not have to leveled. It is going to be backfilled
with crushed gravel.
Im not to concerned about what to charge as this job will be billed by the hour. Basicly,Im just looking for a ball park time frame.
thanks again

 

[steven101]

Thank you Dayexco
bobcat 323 has a reach of 154in.
As for flat bottom, it does not have to leveled. It is going to be backfilled
with crushed gravel.
Im not to concerned about what to charge as this job will be billed by the hour. Basicly,Im just looking for a ball park time frame.
thanks again

Sorry Gents, but its a 323 model

 

[steven101]

Bobcat 223? I can't find a 223 listed on their website. (I don't have an encyclopedic knowlege of brands and models in my head like some of the members do, so I'm not saying there isn't a 223, but are you sure you've got the number right?)

You said a 14' trailer. What's the weight capacity of the trailer? Could you get the rental house to deliver one, if you could use something bigger?

I can walk you through uploading pictures if you want to post any.



I think Steven is trying to get a handle on whether he's going to be renting the excavator for one day, or three, and he can probably do the math from there. It always seems that having confidence in the numbers that you're going to plug in is the hardest part for guys that ask for this kind of advice.

Thanks again Digger242j
Well the trailer is a mac lander I believe it has a gvwr of 9000 lbs.
I could probably have them deliever one, but what size do you recommend?
For me the smaller the better,because I never operated a big excavator.
In the past, Ive rented one for my bobcat S185.
Your right, I meant to say bobcat 323 model.
As for pictures, do they make a disposable digital cameras:laugh

 

[jmac]

I think a 323 is smaller than a 331 so about 6500 lbs or so. Small for what you want to do but it can be done. If you are billing by the hour you just don't want to take so long that the customer will think he overpaid for the work. I would say that with that machine and a skid steer you should take you about 2.5 to 3 days to do. The excavator is worth about $65 to 75$ an hour and skid steer the same. So by the hour with both machines your talking about $3500. A little high if you ask me. I would charge around $1500 for the hole and do it in one day with a larger machine. If the skid steer has tracks on it ( material could be wet) you can dig it with excavator and move with skid steer and maybe get it done in 2 days $2400, still a little more than having a larger machine to do it with. The smaller jobs are tough because this job is big enough for larger excavator but to small to justify rental on bigger machine. My suggestion is do the job for around $2000 and take as long as you need.

 

[steven101]

Thanks Jmac for all your help.
I know their are alot of varibles that come into play but, I just have one ? is it feasible to expect the bobcat 323 to dig aprox. 4 cubic yards an hour with a 24in bucket?

 

[dayexco]

i would "think" you could cycle 3 times a minute at least, let's say that machine has an 1/8th yard bucket

8/1=.125 cu. yds....x3 cycles per min. = .375 yds per min....x 60 mins per hr. =22.5 yds per hr. you don't have any trim passes to contend with the way it sounds, so these should be a realistic production rate.

 

[srs_mn]

The excavator is worth about $65 to 75$ an hour and skid steer the same. So by the hour with both machines your talking about $3500. A little high if you ask me. I would charge around $1500 for the hole and do it in one day with a larger machine.

Hi Boys,
Wow!!! I retired too soon! Do you guys really get this kind of money to dig a hole of less than 100CY? I realize that I do all my thinking in terms of 1970 dollars, but even using the "low" figure of $1500.00, that's $15.00 a yard for digging a small hole and piling the dirt on site! I might just get back in the business!
srs

 

[CascadeScaper]

So I've calculated about 80 yards of spoil, give or take. First of all, where is the dirt going? Trucks or staying on site? If you can keep it on site, you'll need a skid steer to shuttle material away from the hole. If it's going out, you'll need a bigger excavator, or a mode of loading the trucks. I could move that 80 yards in about half a day with a 120 and 1 truck depending on drive time to the spoil dump site. If I was bidding this job, I'd figure at least $1500 or so, 6 hours of trucking at $75/hr. and for these small jobs I won't move a 12 ton excavator for less than $1,000.

For your particular job I need to know what you're doing with the dirt. This affects the cost tremendously. I'd safely say you can move 15-20 yard per hour with a 323, but with a 24" bucket it's going to struggle. Our 303CR slings a 24" and sometimes even that's too much bucket for a 7,300 pound machine. I moved 300 yards in 2 days with the 303, I was cutting a 40X35 bench into a slope. The only way this was possible was because I was able to push the material over the hinge, couldn't get a skid steer down into the hole. Top of the cut was 14 feet from the floor. Don't fool yourself, you can do a lot with a small machine, it just takes a little longer.

 

[xkvator]

i think the 24'' bucket might be too big for the 323. that machine only weighs 3700#...trying to take that big of a bite, you might drag the machine alot.
and with a full bucket, will want to tip when swung over the side

a 325/328 weighs 6500#...might be a better choice...JMO

 

[digger242j]

Hey, uh, Cascade Scaper...

Do we all get a cut of your consulting fee?

:wink2

 

[jmac]

i think the 24'' bucket might be too big for the 323. that machine only weighs 3700#...trying to take that big of a bite, you might drag the machine alot.

That makes it even tougher, I thought the 323 is 6500 lbs but if it is 3700# thats changes things.

8/1=.125 cu. yds....x3 cycles per min. = .375 yds per min....x 60 mins per hr. =22.5 yds per hr. you don't have any trim passes to contend with the way it sounds, so these should be a realistic production rate.

Dayexco, that would mean that he could get it done in 4 to 5 hours, thats pretty fast.

Wow!!! I retired too soon! Do you guys really get this kind of money to dig a hole of less than 100CY? I realize that I do all my thinking in terms of 1970 dollars, but even using the "low" figure of $1500.00, that's $15.00 a yard for digging a small hole and piling the dirt on site! I might just get back in the business!
srs

Remember you have to move the machine, My rate is 1000 to 1500 per day with 16 yrd dump truck and excavator. I think this is close to the "going rate" at least in my area.

Do we all get a cut of your consulting fee?

can I get some?

 

[Countryboy]

There are plenty of people on here who have more knowledge about the logistics of this project so I will take on this question:

As for pictures, do they make a disposable digital cameras:laugh

Yes they do. You'll find um at Walmart. :wink2

 

[dayexco]

all of you people's pricing structure is way out from where i'm at....typically, in my area, i never have to mobe more than 4 miles...around here, i consider that to be about $250.00....and $250 back out....81 yds i could pitch out with the 210 in less than an hour, 544g deere loader to stack if need be, mobe in, mobe out, hrs. rent....another $350. would run the guy 1600 tops,