Buying my first skid steer

[Tchara]

I have a dump truck service, and am going to expand the business to include bobcat services. I been doing a lot of research, and have found more questions then answers. First, the machine will need to load a 8ft dump truck, so am looking for at least a 2000 pound capacity. I will also be digging and using a stump bucket to dig small to medium size stumps. I have a grapple with the quick attach system, so auxiliary hydraulics is a must. Iv'e noticed most machines come with this feature.

I have read a lot of opinions concerning vertical vs radial lift, but not sure which configuration would be best for my application. Vertical lift seems the way to go to load my dump truck, but may be weak in digging and dirt work. I'm looking to buy a used unit that's under 18.000. What is the max hours a machine can have before it's worn out. I understand that it has a lot to do with how the machine is worked and maintained, but is there a general limit that I should stay under.

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[KSSS]

I would try and find a 95Xt in decent shape, vertical lift, good break out, machine weighs just under 10K. Its big but very productive, Cummins motor.

 

[frogfarmer]

Strength of the vertical lift wont be a problem. The concerns are the multiple point of wear. All the machines wear at the pivots and the vertical lift machines have 4 times the wear points to lead to movement in the long run when everything wears. For me it would depend on the amount of loading vs digging that the loader is to be used. If I were loading trucks half the time or more I would want Vertical lift it makes a big diffference. If I were running a breaker or doing alot of demolition I would want a Radial lift. Fortunately I have both and take the most appropriate for the job. Your price range is reasonable and you will be able to find several for your requirements. I dont buy a machine to work with over 1000hrs and try to sell them when they hit the 3000hr range. I do not adhere to this for my personal machines. If I find a machine I really like I might keep it till it dies hence my 843 and LS170. But the machines that make the money are low hour and 5yrs old or newer. I have units with Cummins, Kubota, Caterpillar, Perkins, and ISM power plants and cant say I would recomend one over the other.

 

[GapPowerWilly]

From my experience in renting machines to others for 20+ years, your dealer is the key. Even buying used, I go with the brand that the most trusted local dealer carries. Not so much variance in the machines, but dealerships vary. Often dealer for Brand A has good deals on a Brand B machine that he'd like to part with. I agree that you don't want a machine in the 3,000 + hour range. The sweet spot can be hard to find but don't pay half price for a half worn out machine because you are getting the wrong half of the service life. Max service life for a skid loader is rarely more than 5000 hours........if you expect at least reasonable uptime.

 

[Tchara]

Thanks for all the input. I'm getting a lot of good advice.
I'm looking at a john deere 325 from a United Rentals. The machine has just over 3000 hrs, which raises a red flag. It's a 2008 model with a new seat and brand new airless tires. Their asking 17500 for it. My reasoning is, it's been regularly serviced its whole life, and all maintenance records are available.

Anyone else have any experience buying from a rental place?

 

[KSSS]

I am thinking if you have an established dump truck service, you would want a skid steer that could load trucks in a productive manner. I think a 3K plus ROC machine, something can handle a 1 yard bucket efficiently would be the best fit. Machines in that would meet this criteria are the Deere 332, Bobcat S300, CASE 95XT/465, NH LS190, CAT 272. I have a 465 and with an 84" bucket with a back splash it holds 7/8 of a yard or about 1 yard heaped and the machine will load a truck as fast as any back hoe. I used to productively load a side dump trailer with it. The trade off is these machines are big (for a skid steer). Good luck.

 

[frogfarmer]

Thanks for all the input. I'm getting a lot of good advice.
I'm looking at a john deere 325 from a United Rentals. The machine has just over 3000 hrs, which raises a red flag. It's a 2008 model with a new seat and brand new airless tires. Their asking 17500 for it. My reasoning is, it's been regularly serviced its whole life, and all maintenance records are available.

Anyone else have any experience buying from a rental place?

That machine has reached all my limits for a production machine and being a rental I would not want it for paying jobs. The rental industry has their cost to profit ratios worked out very well so when they choose to sell a machine its because its no longer profitable or never paid for it self in the first palce. With 3000hrs this machine paid for itself and they know chances are the cost to go another few thousand hrs wont work out profit wise. Not all rentals are abused but I know when I rent a machine it gets the hardest workout I can give because time is money.

 

[Canuck Digger]

I'm a big fan of buying private if I can, or at least see the machine when it enters the yard. Seeing/talking to the owner, you can get a pretty good idea real quick if it's been taken care of or not. Any rental yard/dealer can take a real POS and make it look pretty. Buying used is like rollin a dice. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about it. Worst thing you can do is rush into it!

 

[LWG]

Thanks for all the input. I'm getting a lot of good advice.
I'm looking at a john deere 325 from a United Rentals. The machine has just over 3000 hrs, which raises a red flag. It's a 2008 model with a new seat and brand new airless tires. Their asking 17500 for it. My reasoning is, it's been regularly serviced its whole life, and all maintenance records are available.

Anyone else have any experience buying from a rental place?

I bought a T200 from a broker, who got the machine from a local rental company. The engine ran horribly. It barely started, and when it ran, it had little power.

I did this transaction well, I think. Before I agreed to purchase it, I had it inspected by a first-rate shop. They thought it was injectors, and I used that to get the price down a little. I wanted the timing belt changed because I knew that was a problem area with this engine. The shop went over it and checked everything over. The machine looked very rough. It was splattered with cement, and I don't think the Bobtach levers were ever moved.

The shop said that in their view, although the machine looked rough, it was mechanically in pretty good condition. They replaced the timing belt, cleaned (not replaced) the injectors and it ran beautifully. I was a little worried about the compression, which was at the outer limit of acceptable for variation between cylinders, but it starts immediately, in well less than a second. And that's the case even in the cold weather we've been having.

It was a little ironic, but the rental company came and found me. They were looking for the transmitter for the GPS that they forgot to remove from the machine. I talked to the mechanic who wanted to take it out, and he asked me what I ever did with the engine, i.e. did I have it rebuilt? I said no, the shop just redid the belt and cleaned the injectors. I assume that the rental place sold it on the cheap to the broker on the basis that the engine was shot.

The machine had about 4200 hours on it. I have put about 250 hours on it since. The tracks were worn when I got it, but I try to baby them. I don't have to run over asphalt or concrete, and I try to avoid horsing the machine around.

I don't earn my living with the machine, and if I did, my decision might have been different. If you have a good shop that is experienced with the brand of machine you're looking at, get a good pre-purchase inspection. From my reading here, and my experience, I've learned that you can never tell whether your machine will run the next time you go to use it. The pump or motors could self-destruct, and your once-terrific machine is now a 4 ton lawn ornament. The best you can say is that it ran pretty well the last time you used it.

 

[Lindsey97]

In 2013 I purchased a 2006 takeuchi tb135 mini ex, and a Kent f5 breaker hammer from united rentals. their regional rep treated me very well. I was offered a warranty, and a free full fluid/filter service. they also let me try out the excavator for a couple of days before buying it. it had 880 hrs. on it, and had quite a few dings and dents. but the machine was free of leaks, and everything worked perfect on it. I have logged about 300 hours on it in less than a year and have been very pleased with it.

some pointers when buying a used machine: 1) always get a warranty on all of the major powertrain components. 2) use oil analysis tests to determine the condition of a powertrain component. 3) try it before you buy it. 4) obtain the VIN of the machine and go run it thru the dealer database to check for warranty work or recalls made on that model.

 

[Tchara]

I'm going to look at a NH LS180 tomorrow. It has just over 2000 hours on it. It has the super boom, so should have plenty height to load the truck. I gave up on the John Deere at United Rental. By the time I paid the tax, the diesel fee Texas charges and a one year warrantee, I was up to almost 21000.00. More money then I want to spend on my first skid steer.

The LS180 is from a private owner, and he's asking 17500 for it, but is willing to negotiate. It looks like a pretty clean machine. It was originally purchased by a landscape company, and has never seen a construction site.
If it checks out, I'm going to offer 16000 straight hop cash.

Wish me luck

 

[Tchara]

Looked at the ls180 today, and it had a drive issue. It would pull to the left when I pulled the joy sticks forward. I had to pull back on the left stick a limitless to keep it straight. I called a couple dealerships, and they said it could be an adjustment or a drive motor going bad. Worse case scenario, about 1000.00 to fix. I offered the guy 14000.00 cash.
He said he'd get back to me.

 

[frogfarmer]

I just checked auction results and these machines with 2500hrs are selling for $10,000. Several of these machines are selling for $6000-$9000 at auction with some being functional and some inoperable. These are real prices people are paying for this exact model so what they are asking seems high. Getting a drive motor repalced for $1000 would be very cheap given what I have seen and if it needs pump work to go along with the motor you are well into the $3-5000 range. I havent seen the machine so I cant say its not worth what they are asking but I would be very careful.

 

[KSSS]

Yea its unlikely you would get out of a drive motor replacement for a grand. I am looking at the latest Machinery Trader mag and at Empire Cat in Az. they are advertising an 07 CASE 450 with 1538 hours, its a base unit it looks like but they are only asking 19482. They may move enough to get you in your budget. The 450 is a radial machine, so its not going to have the reach of a vertical machine, but they are very HD productive machines. Extremely fast cycle times. They are a money maker if you move dirt with them.

 

[Tchara]

Well I ended up buying a john deere 250. I little smaller then what I was hoping for, but with the counter weights I'm up to a 2100 pnd capacity. The machine has 1700 hours on it and about 4 hours on the motor. It just had a complete overhaul.
It's a pretty clean machine and everything works like it should. I read online that the original 250's were crap, but the series II, JD fixed the problems. It's a 2003 model, so it should be the series II. The guy was asking 18500 for it, but I ended up at 17250.

Wish me luck
I want to thank all the other people to chimed in on this thread and tried to help me make a good choice. I appreciate everyone's feed back.