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business proposition good or bad

Hendrik

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
1,232
Location
Adelaide South Australia
Well I think you did the right thing, with some more background on the situation it has become clearer that you would offend some of your existing customers by catering to Mr Bigs demands.
You have to remember that Farmers are a jealous bunch and notorious gossips and I would say that some are already unhappy about someone like Mr Big and his wheeling and dealing.

However also be mindful that advice from decent people, that care about you, generally tends to be conservative, as they don't want to see you get into trouble.
 

OCR

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,195
Location
Montana
Occupation
Rancher/Farmer, Wildland Fire Fighter, State snowp
business proposition good or bad:

Someone asked who my panel of consultants were
That was me... and the only reason I was curious, was because you stated:
my consultants don't know what to tell me and said ask others that might know.
I guess they were the rest, that were kinda wishy washy, and told you to go ask someone that had done things like this before....

I think I follow you on that.

I also expect you'll pick up jobs from the guy, just as you wanted... without having that fairly extensive, long term contract commitment; don't think I would have bit on that myself, at least, going by what you posted.

Seems like every thing should work out OK... :thumbsup


This is unrelated, but the "guy" you refer to, kinda reminds me of a joke we have about wealthy people coming here, and buying thousands upon thousands of acres of land. (it does happen, but not often)


A local will ask... "Good God man, you trying to buy up the whole State?"

And the reply... "Of course not!!! Just want to buy the land next to mine."




OCR... :)


On edit:
Sorry for babbling on so long.
Well, babbling or not... lol

I see nothing to be sorry for... you wanted information, or advice... some is good, some... maybe not.

Some, you probably kinda' wanted to hear, and some you probably didn't... ;)

Either way, you gotta ask....

Now, you can sift through it all, and use what you think is best, and disregard the rest...
 
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Bumpus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
86
Location
Florida
Occupation
Disability / Retired
.
The only way you might consider doing this 5 year contract, would be with the old man you said you first worked for. But I doubt that he would work that way with you he is smarter than that.

Sound like you have many good advisers who care about you personally, and want the best for you.

They are on you board even though they are scattered around and share there input and you have the final say.

You have also stood back and looked at other things besides long term work, bigger money, increased equipment size and doubling your business.

It may double in size but the things you see, such as running yourself to death, and wasting time moving, and the other unknowns are part of things many do not consider or see and later they become a burden.

This guy may have the best crops in the country but that does not mean he makes a profit in his business.

Where is your guarantee he can do his part down the road if he looses his crops ( drought, prices fall, etc )


If he is in trouble and can't pay you he can still run his business even if you have to sue him and win down the road some day while your paying for all the extra equipment.

Also some of the best advice and could be considered as wise people to listed to, are those who were wishy washy. Because they said they did not know and that you should ask those who do know.

They did not try to give you a bunch of jibber jabber, just to make you feel better.

Just some thoughts.

.
 
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Bumpus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
86
Location
Florida
Occupation
Disability / Retired
.
I believe the safest way to increase your business would be to work a little faster on you list of backed up work from those who are on your list by getting one or two extra pieces of equipment and a couple other employees.

As the list gets shorter, quicker, other new customers will see an opportunity to get on the list and have there jobs done faster with out having to wait in line to long, causing them to wait on your dependable work.

Not a large group to fast, but a extra job here, and another there.

You can figure it out with the help of your knowledgeable advisers, and your experience.

Grow slow my friend ... but grow with those who in the know, and care about your sucess.
.
 

Kap

Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
13
Location
Oxford, MA
Occupation
HVAC\Electrical Contractor
Hmmmmm....... a lot of good sugestions but as I read through all the replys I didn't see anyone bring up the subject of buying the equipment outright. Many have suggested renting but I'm not a fan of that if I can help it. I own my house I own my car....

Do you presently rent the equipment you have ?

With today's financial mess there's a ton of bargains out there if you look for them.

If you were to pick out a few pieces of choice equipment with low hrs. and bought it for a song would that change your mind ? I know the numbers would change.

Just my two cents worth....
 

jrtraderny

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2006
Messages
241
Location
New York
I've been at this game along time. From what you're saying, and you being nervous about this deal I'd walk away real fast.
jr
 

Speedpup

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
1,214
Location
New York
Occupation
President and all else that needs done!
The problem I'm seeing is the size and amount of equipment to handle both him and my current customers would be a sizable purchase and my attorneys gut feeling is about like mine, he put it as simple as could be "if you need contracts and payment schedules and bank agreements and all that maybe its getting out of control, do what you do for who you do and forget the rest".

Any time you get big you will need the above and if you are noy yet ready for that you would have a huge mass.

Bigger is not always better. It comes down to time spend working and stress vs what you KEEP in your pocket not how much you did.:drinkup
 

Randy88

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,149
Location
iowa
I only own my equipment I've never leased anything and seldom rent, if I'd rent its just to see if the piece fits into my operation and either end it or buy it, most of my stuff is used and most from auctions or when older guys sell out and quit. The largest dozer I've currently got is a D5 size and smaller for the smaller jobs but we do have 4 of them along with a couple of excavators and several trenchers for putting in tile and all the support equipment to go with, skidsteers, semi's, enddump trailers, flatbeds, lowboys, tag trailers, etc. I basically do what the big guys don't want to take the time for when they are busy doing their thing and customers are tired of waiting because their job isn't important enough for the bigger operator and after doing work for them I usually end up being the contractor of choice from there on out but I also realize most of my customers are not in expansion mode with the exception of a few and I'm concerned that if I don't somehow get into the kinds of work the bigger expansion crowd needs I'll end up with a smaller customer base as my current customers retire, quit or pass away, thats where this guys proposition looked tempting, it was a way to get into that segment of work and if it panned out I could make the next step up in size of customers but the more people talked to me and gave opinions maybe I'm better where I'm at and as of yet work really hasn't really been a problem, someone always sees my work and wants me to do some for them or gets tired of waiting and calls me instead, so on smaller projects a few of the bigger guys have called me to do those projects, so maybe there is a competition between me and my larger competators, I'm sure a couple of my competators are nervous I'll take the next step and probably cause them even more hardship and are trying desperately to keep me at bay, I"ve even had their bankers call me and ask if or when I plan on taking the next step but I also don't want to give up what I've got, thats the mistake my competators did was expand and forget the little guys and its killing them now in tougher times and thats exactly what my competitions lender told me "you took all the small jobs and now there's none of them left for my clients and the bigger jobs dried up, your killing them" Well thats not my problem its thiers but at the same time I don't want to make the same mistake. I'm sitting here thinking if the big guys fail I'm currently set for life but if they keep expanding they'll buy out all my current customers and thats it for me, so its a big gamble do I expand into that market and compete for the jobs or sit tight and wait it out and see what happens.

Right now I don't have to bid on vertually any jobs and every one makes me money or I don't do it, if I expanded I'd have to bid for the work and why, its such a cut throat deal right now those guys are barely breaking even or at least thats what my lenders or consultants are telling me. Yes I could buy a couple of used D7 size machines and maybe a larger excavator in the 300 size class along with a larger trencher to be more productive and hire some additonal help to get more done and also go after larger jobs and I've priced the machines and yea I could get some of it for a song but then I'd have a hard time serving both the large and small guy and from where I sit and what I see in hard times the small guy still has jobs and pays his bill and I'm not seeing anything but harder times ahead and if my competition doesn't make it I've got it all anyhow and just buy some equipment later and serve only the best of the bigger guys and let the rest fend for themselves.

My family and crew are telling me to wait it out and see what happens and even if I have to pay a lot more for machines later by then we'd know, if all turns bad the worst case senerio is I have to buy machines to compete for larger jobs in the future but like my people are telling me worry about it then we've made it through this far and we'll make it through later as well. It's not really about putting anybody out of business or having it all or doing as much as I can its about making a living and doing what I can with what I have and for who I want to work for.

The other side is do we want to expand in that direction at all, theres a lot of options out there and things to do and I'm not sure if agriculture is where I want to do it at, we already offer several services in other fields and maybe those are of more interest and keep things diversified, we've looked at that as well, theres more to life than moving dirt and thats only good for about 8 months a year when the ground isn't froze and anymore farmers don't want to idle land so we can work in the summer much, so we are investigating other options besides dirt or ag, like someone stated farmers are a fickle bunch maybe its time to pursue other potential customers besides farmers.

Is anybodys crystal ball working better than mine to see whats coming or make any predictions at to what the future holds, are these guys who will buy and rent everything giong to take over and have it all or is the economy going to shut them down and give the small guy who bases his expansion on cash flow and being able to pay for it going to survive and thrive and things go towards making some sense again. So far I've heard it both ways and nobody's sure other than if it was going to happen it should have a few years ago by now.
 

joispoi

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,284
Location
Connecticut
The only reason I could see to expand would be to make more money. Bigger doesn't always = more profitable. Sometimes bigger is just bigger. I've had jobs where I made a better hourly rate with a 1.5 ton mini ex than I did with my PC300 which I owned outright (after deducting fuel and rental).
 
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