Building demo

[chuey]

We are bidding on demolishing an old hospital. It's 4 stories tall & is brick construction. What's the best way to go about getting it down? Nothing is in the immediate area just parking lot & grass. Haven't done a building this tall before so any advice from sum pros would be very helpful. Haven't got the job yet but want all my ducks in a row. Thanks guys

 

[Turbo21835]

You have not told us what you have for equipment, that may affect some advice. Normal old school way to do this is to take some lower sections of building, and use the debris to ramp up to where you can reach the top of the 4 story sections.

 

[CM1995]

In addition to what Turbo said, what kind of "brick construction" is it? Reinforced masonry, brick veneer on cmu, brick veneer on metal studs, concrete floors, wood structural floors, etc.? All these questions will have an affect on the method of demo.

 

[Shenandoah]

Old may equal asbestos and lead paint. What are your environmental rules regarding these issues?

 

[chuey]

As for equipment goes. A cat 320c 55ft long reach, deere 892d LC excavator, cat 320c excavator w/ hammer, Deere 333E CTL,Deere 323D CTL, cat 305c compact excavator, deere 750c dozer to level area, & a tri axle but got a nearby company to contract out for hauling. We were suppose to receive specs on the structure Friday but it got delayed due to the architect's father passed away. But I'm guessing it is brick veneer on Cmu with wooden floors. There are several other buildings the same age in the area built that way. The asbestos has already been removed. I know we have to let idem know 10 days in advance prior to demo but don't know yet on dust control & what not. I will know more particulars this week. Only have till the 20th to get our bids in so little bit of a short window. Thanks guys

 

[CM1995]

You have more than enough equipment to handle that building if the specs are what you assume. I use the "run whatcha brung" philosophy on the projects I do.

Personally I haven't done a 4 story building but I have demo'd houses that are 2 stories plus a 12/12 roof on zero lot lines. The process of careful demo will be the same. As Turbo said use the building rubble to build a ramp as you go and take it down. With an 892 and 320, you will have the reach with a ramp and be able to safely take it down.

How old is the building? If it has wood floors (structural) I would guess it's an old building. If you have the time and the manpower, those old beams and wood is worth a pretty penny in the salvage market, the bricks as well. Something to consider.

Any scrap in the building to speak of? Being a hospital it should have a fair amount of piping and other systems that will yield some decent money if it is still there.

 

[chuey]

It was built in the 30s. Much of the metal in the building has already been ripped out. They have had a lot of trouble with ppl getting into it & stealing stuff plus homeless ppl staying in it. All the concrete & brick I plan on hauling to the river for the levee commission. The river ate out 40 ft of the bank this winter & almost is into the levee so they need a lot of concrete.

 

[chuey]

We got the specs for the building yesterday but they pretty vague. The square ft footprint is 5900 but its 4 stories tall plus a chimney. Removing all concrete sidewalks around it plus taking the footer down to 12" below grade & filling in basement. They gave us no details on the make up of the structure other than the exterior is brick. What do you guys typically use as a formula to calculate the debris?

 

[CM1995]

Rough guide I go by is 1000sf = 100CY of debris. This works well for residential and light commercial construction.

Are you able to make a site walk through? I don't bid a demo unless I can walk the structure or if it's in really bad shape do an outside walk around. I would want to know what kind of construction the structural walls and floors are made of.

 

[chuey]

yes we are able to walk through it plus have a pre bid meeting. What kind of formula do you typically use for brick veneer?

 

[Turbo21835]

Brick and concrete are simple, just figure it as you would a slab. Say a wall is brick, its 6 inches thick, 10 feet tall, and 100 feet long. so 100x10=1000sqft. 1000x.5=500cubic feet. 500/27=18.5 cyds. Not sure on a swell factor, but I would say 30-50%. Apply this to all your masonry walls, you have your volumes. Not knowing the building I cant even begin to think about landfill debris, but I would think this building has minimal debris for the landfill. You will come across some scrap inside walls, I would not apply a cost reduction to the project for that because there will not be enough, not to mention your time sorting it out as you wreck.

 

[CM1995]

There are 7 common brick per sf for an average weight of 40lbs per sf or face foot. This would be for regular veneer not double wythe or reinforced brick masonry.

What type of brick? Standard, queen, architectural, solid, etc? The type of brick will determine its weight per face foot.

 

[Wolf]

Do you have any pictures of the building. Post some before and after. That would be cool.

 

[chuey]

I will try to post some pics of it later. Do you guys prefer cans or dump trucks for commercial demo? Landfill is $40 ton & trucking $72 per hour. its bout 70 mile round trip. 40 yd can is $321 for 3 ton & $55 for each additional ton.

 

[CM1995]

Depends on the type of demo.

Last commercial demo I did (there's a thread here somewhere on it) was a basic stick framed building with free span wood trusses, slab on grade. I hauled all the soft debris in 30's and hauled the slab in dump trucks. That's usually the way I like to do it, load out the debris that goes to the landfill in cans and the inert material on dump trucks. Usually there is a dump/fill site somewhere we can take the clean concrete and masonry to and save the tipping charge.

I never load out landfill bound demo debris on dump trucks as it's too expensive. You just can't get the same volume per trip you can with a 30 yard can, yet it cost about the same to haul and I can't pack a dump truck like you can a 30 yard - drivers don't seem to like that.

Have an old automatic carwash that was converted to a training center to demo next week. CMU with brick veneer, wood trusses with metal standing seam roof. I have a few 30's for soft demo and metal and the cmu, brick and slab is going in dump trucks. I have a free dump for the hardcore material so it makes sense to haul it in tri-axle dumps because they can carry more weight than a tandem roll-off and the free dump is not far away. All the regulated material will be sent to the landfill in 30's.

If I did more demo I have thought of investing in a demo dump trailer to haul my own debris but just don't do enough demo to justify it. Ultimately having a lowboy and a dump trailer with one tractor to pull both would be great but work has to pick up first.

 

[chuey]

We got to look at the building today. It's a total concrete structure. Slab floors.

 

[Wolf]

We got to look at the building today. It's a total concrete structure. Slab floors.

So it not brick after all? What kind of equipment do you have or will you rent equipment?

 

[chuey]

Has a brick veneer but the rest of the structure is concrete. Floors walls supports. Since its a concrete structure our 320 long reach won't do any good so we will be using our deere 892d-LC excavator, cat 320 with hammer, cat 305 compact excavator, deere 333E CTL, & deere 750c dozer for leveling. Renting a roller to compact fill & a cat 325 with multi processor. Havin all the hauling subcontracted

 

[chuey]

The building is 125ft x 44ft x approx. 40ft tall has a full basement 10ft deep. All exterior walls are 1ft thick concrete w/ brick veneer & all interior walls are concrete as well approx. 6in thick. Has concrete sidewalks on 3 sides & a concrete ramp. Has elevator inside. Basement walls taken down 12" below grade & has to be filled in & compacted then top soil & seed & straw. All debris except some clean concrete which almost all has paint on it has to go to a c&d landfill which is approx. 40 min away. If you guys were guessing what would be a ballpark bid? Wanna here you guys opinions then ill tell ya the bid from us & the others.

 

[CM1995]

Concrete exterior and interior walls? That building was built hell for stout. I would be throwing a number in the wind as I don't have the time to calculate all that tonnage and not seeing the building or the interior wall layout, really wouldn't have a place to start.