Bil-Jax 3632T

[Shenandoah]

Is anybody familiar with the way the outrigger cylinders work on a Bil-Jax 3632T? I picked up a 2006 unit where the boomlift was removed and I bought the trailer half, outriggers and all. It looks like the cycliders are energized via a solenoid. I'm guessing those solenoids basically allow pressurized hydraulic fluid to be directed for either extending the cylinders or retracting them.

I'm curious what voltage is used if my guess is correct, and is the rest of the system (3000 psi) continually under pressure and the solenoids are just gate valves? I've Googled for this and have found nothing related to my query, but I have download the parts PDF and it shows the cylinder/solenoid as a single part number. So no help there.

Anybody familiar with how these cylinders operate? I'm thinking of using them in a different application. Thanks in advance.

 

[willie59]

I'm not familiar with that particular lift, but most electric tow behind units are 24V, no way I can confirm on that one though. That machine is a self leveling unit, meaning, you would activate controls to deploy outriggers and the machine controls would make outriggers go down, lift machine off the ground, and level the machine via each outrigger regardless of terrain by input to the controls from a level sensor. Once machine was off the ground and level, the outrigger controls would shut off automatically. If you purchased only the trailer portion, missing the upper rotating structure, not likely you're going to replicate this "self leveling" function, cost of parts to do so would be not worth it. You'll probably just going to have to rig up a reservoir, motor, pump, 4 stack/4 way valve with relief and operate the outriggers manually with the 4 way valves.

 

[Shenandoah]

Thanks Willie, you're right the control parts from Bil-Jax are E-X-P-E-N-S-I-V-E!

I understand what you're saying about the other hydraulic items being needed, but one of my curiosities is if the solenoids can be used in place of the spools to energize the up/down of those cylinders. And if not, is there a way to easily remove them and just hook the hydraulic lines directly to the cylinders. These four cylinders are pristine and I don't want to screw them up tinkering around and put them in a non-serviceable condition where I basically turn them into junk. Hence, I'm looking for a little guidence before I get out the chainsaw.

And the rig does work off 24V as I recall, but I'm wondering if there is a voltage stepdown to the solenoids as I am not familiar at all with the electronics involved in the auto-stabilization of the rig.

 

[willie59]

In all honesty it's hard for me to give specific advice as I don't really know what we're working with, being not familiar with the machine/components and what you're left to work with after the machine has been sawed off at the knees as it were. All I'm saying is a little ingenuity can accomplish great things. You have outriggers, you have cylinders, all you need is the components to control them, doesn't matter whether it's solenoid valves or manual controlled lever valves, you need a hyd reservoir, a pump, a means to drive the pump (a motor), and control valves. I don't know if this helps, but that's the basics of what you need.

 

[VoodooMojo]

Is this going to be a stand-alone unit or is it to be run from a pto hyd system from the tow vehicle?

Best keep the original valves in the outrigger cylinders.
Knowing the length and the bore diameter of the solenoid coil for the outrigger cylinder valves will help in finding 12 volt coils that may be used in place of the 24 volt coils. If 12 volt is more desirable.

What amount of weight are you planning to raise with the outriggers?
This will help us compute the needed components for your project.

 

[Shenandoah]

No problem, Willie. I understand hydraulics, what I don't understand is these dang solenoids at the base of these cylinders and whether the cylinders will work if they are removed.

The bottom cylinder cap (when outriggers are upright) is a square integral unit that incorporates not only the pivot pin housing but also the solenoid mount and has a non-standard way of hooking up the two hydraulic hoses. I haven't taken the units off the trailer yet to get a closer inspection (bench work) so I'm still a wee bit in the dark.

But I love a good challenge...

 

[VoodooMojo]

The cylinders will not work with the valves removed. They are not only the valves that extend and retract the cylinders, they are also the valves that keep the cylinder in the position they are set at. Like holding valves.

 

[willie59]

Ahh, notable information, didn't know solenoids were fitted at the cylinders. That does make things more complicated.

 

[Shenandoah]

Hi VM, yea the cylinders would be run off of either a PTO or a power unit to supply pressure. The cylinders have a three and a half inch bore with a twelve inch throw, if that helps.

One of the things I'm going to have to find out is the SWL for the outriggers. I could probably work backwards from the weight of the basket, its' 500 pound SWL, the boom weight, and the 32 or 36 foot extention away from the slew ring, but it would be handy if someone familiar with the unit (a mechanic?) already knew some of this stuff.

Now that you brought it up changing the solenoids from 24V to 12V might be worth looking into although 24V is not a deal killer.

 

[VoodooMojo]

110 volt AC coils are also available.

Here is the schematic of what you got:



This is one cylinder isolated and re-drawn to make a bit clearer.
Note the checks in the valve on the cylinder. That is what keeps the outriggers in the set position.:

 

[willie59]

Looks like a standby pressure variable displacement pump would work that system just fine.

 

[Shenandoah]

Thanks VM, that's a huge help. I was thinking if I buggered the solenoids I'd be SOL and be facing one of those "My mother is coming to stay with us" moments. I'm trying to avoid that.

So if I can pick your brain a tad more...the system needs to stay under pressure for the cylinders to to function properly, correct? Or are the check vavles enough to hold the outriggers if pressure is removed from the lines?

You've been a big help and I'm glad to see Willie and I are on the same page now, because those solenoids make all the difference when using these cyclinders.

 

[VoodooMojo]

The system does not need to be under pressure to hold the outriggers in place.
That is the job of the valve cartridges.

 

[VoodooMojo]

The original machine used a 2.0CC fixed displacement pump at 3300 rpm with a relief setting of 3000psi.
It wouldn't take much to operate this but still depends on the load that is going to be lifted.
Heck, a log-splitter set-up should do nicely.

 

[willie59]

Agree with mojo, those solenoid valves act as holding valves as well as delivery valve. That diagram is basically a closed center system, a positive displacement pump won't work without a means to dump the oil being delivered when valve operation is not selected, but a load sensing variable displacement pump would work that system.

 

[Shenandoah]

Thanks guys, I'm like miles ahead now with the info you two have provided. I'm just starting to put the pieces together for what I'm hoping will make for a fun Spring project once the weather turns nice. Still a ways to go, but I'm getting there...

 

[VoodooMojo]

unless an electric/hydraulic power unit is used that shuts off when the controls are off.

 

[willie59]

Hey voodoo, an alternative, using a positive displacement pump, on some of the older JLG machines using gear pumps, they used a "sequence valve" as they called it to dump oil from pump when no operations are selected, would that not work in this application?

 

[VoodooMojo]

I-81, I-95, and I-66 are my home.
If you need hands on help when you start this project, let me know.

 

[willie59]

LoL, I'm the opposite end of I-81, SE end of Virginia.

Seems to me he could use a gear pump (fairly cheap) with some form of "sequence valve" to dump the oil when op's aren't selected, then use the solenoid valves to pop the outriggers.