• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

BIG lift!

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,582
Location
Canada
Last edited:

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,344
Location
sw missouri
Thanks for posting that Dave. The guy who had the hard job was the crane tailing that. The ringer just lifted straight up, the tail crane has more weight than the lift crane, and he had to pick and carry it to the top one. Granted, he didn't have near as much boom in, and I'm sure they had all kinds of spotters and radio chatter.

Neat lift.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,582
Location
Canada
I think one of the links I saw mentioned that the tail crane was near its limit. Not sure what that would be but I'd guess they only lifted it as high as necessary. The video was obviously sped up but they made it look easy. I'm not sure if a couple guys pushing on it is enough to turn close to 2 million pounds to line the bolts up. When they're getting ready to set it down gives a better idea of the size. The lifting mounts for the tail crane look to be about 3" thick or more if I had to guess.
 
Last edited:

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,344
Location
sw missouri
The tail and lift cranes start out with equal weight (maybe a little more on the head crane to start because of the pick point/ center of gravity), and as that vessel goes up, the tail crane will gain more and more weight. Tail crane ends up with 60-70% of the lift when it gets close to straight up, in the uprighting work that I've done.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,582
Location
Canada
That kind of makes sense that the main crane is keeping it from tipping over but the tail crane is holding it up. With walkways, piping and other components added before lifting it weighed 975 tonnes! The tail crane was a Leihberr LR1750 rated at 750 ton. I found the article I mentioned above. It says the crane was at 97% capacity so I'm wondering if that is the ring crane or the tail crane? Weight after final assembly was 24,000,000 lbs. Needed 3 smaller but still big cranes to assemble the ring crane. Any idea how many millions a lift like this would cost?

https://www.craneandhoistcanada.com/transportation-ring-crane-hoists-record-highway-deliveries-1618/
 
Last edited:

mitch504

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2010
Messages
5,776
Location
Andrews SC
Two things amazed me: They set it down so precisely that they didn't even bang up any of the threads on the anchor bolts.

That tail crane is a 750 ton, that's way bigger than I've ever worked with, and it looked little in the video.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,582
Location
Canada
There's some indication of the size of the vessel but there's another video someone took while waiting at an intersection for it to go by that really shows how long it is. They said there were a couple icy hills on route moving it and they had use 10 trucks to get it up the hills. 725 tonne and 638 tonne vessels also hauled to the site barely got noticed. The 750 ton crane looks like a toy compared to the 1600 ton ring crane. Pretty precision job putting it in place.
 

terex herder

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2017
Messages
1,816
Location
Kansas
You can see yellow straps and a ratchet chain fall just before they set it on the studs. Looks like yellow caution tape.
 

Mobiltech

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,701
Location
Sask.
Occupation
Self employed Heavy duty mechanic
I wonder how many lifts a 1600 ton crane makes in a year and how many there would be in North America.
 

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,582
Location
Canada
Reading about this lift they had some issues with components for the ring crane being too heavy for transport on roads so had to use special trailers to get it here from Texas. Apparently they are usually moved by sea.
 

Big Iron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Project Manager
upload_2020-4-26_9-34-50.png
tandum-lift-pdf.216036
The tail and lift cranes start out with equal weight (maybe a little more on the head crane to start because of the pick point/ center of gravity), and as that vessel goes up, the tail crane will gain more and more weight. Tail crane ends up with 60-70% of the lift when it gets close to straight up, in the uprighting work that I've done.
I don't often post however this needs to be corrected to prevent some young operator from making what could be a fatal mistake. I have operated cranes from 2300 Manitowics, 50 tn P&H's through 4600's to 11320's yes I spent the last years of working career as a PM, but cranes have always been my passion and I have been involved in numerous tandem lifts. The only time the tailing crane could have more weight than the lift crane is if it lifts higher than the lift crane. I will leave it at that and show the illustrations of a tailing crane from the IPT Mobil Crane and Rigging Training Manual although this information is consistent through out NCCCO and other training manuals as well. If you need information on calculating weights you can find that in those publications as well.
upload_2020-4-26_9-34-50.png upload_2020-4-26_9-36-5.png
 
Last edited:

Welder Dave

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
12,582
Location
Canada
That gives some clarification. I think on the vessel in question the lifting point further down from the top would put more weight on the ring crane once it transitions from horizontal to vertical?
 

Big Iron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Project Manager
Placement of the lifting lugs is determined by the location of the Center of Gravity, which is determined by the engineers (yea I know that is a scary thought) that designed the vessel. Be that as it may each crane will have X (ideally 50% each) amount of the load when it is horizontal, once the lift crane begins to rise the load from vertical to horizontal it will be accepting more and more of the load until at vertical it will have accepted 100% of the load while the tail crane will be at 0%.
 

Big Iron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Project Manager
once the lift crane begins to rise the load from vertical to horizontal
sorry bout that my fingers got ahead of my brain
should read once the lift crane begins to rise the load from horizontal to vertical
 

crane operator

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
8,344
Location
sw missouri
Placement of the lifting lugs is determined by the location of the Center of Gravity, which is determined by the engineers (yea I know that is a scary thought) that designed the vessel. Be that as it may each crane will have X (ideally 50% each) amount of the load when it is horizontal, once the lift crane begins to rise the load from vertical to horizontal it will be accepting more and more of the load until at vertical it will have accepted 100% of the load while the tail crane will be at 0%


Sorry, but that's not what the scales will show on a tandem lift. And its not the way it really works. Or the way gravity actually works.

I've done hundreds of tandem lifts, the books can say what they want. The lower crane will gain weight as the load gets closer to vertical. My cranes have scales on them, and you can watch the weight gain on the lower crane in a tandem lift.

We regularly upright tanks. And if you have a 20,000 lbs tank, the lower crane will have about 12-13,000 on it just before the upper crane gets to vertical, and then the upper crane will "lift" the rest of the load off the lower crane.

You want to make a dangerous situation, tell the lower "tail" crane that they will never have more than 1/2 the load. If the tail crane is at max with 1/2 the load, he's going to be in trouble.


Lets throw out all your fancy drawings, and just use a little common sense. I know that's hard if you're a "project manager" but lets put the hard hat back on for a little bit.

Lets do something that everyone can understand. You're in the yard and have cut a 8' chunk of 10" maple tree off a dead tree- and its laying there.

You take the tree trunk, and leave one end on the ground, and push it to close to upright. Does it get easier or harder to lift and move around when upright or when its horizontal to the ground? That's right- Its easier with it more upright- because the weight is more on the ground. Now imagine your "tail" crane is the ground. The weight on the "ground" or the "tail crane" doesn't change whether its the "ground" or a "crane". Its more on the lower end.

Don't argue with me and start showing me drawings yet. I've got more:

Lets take a 400lbs I-beam. I can lift my end, I'm going to assume you can lift your end. But we probably both have all we want. Now I'm going to climb a ladder with my end.

Think you can handle your end? I know I'm going to get better all the way up my ladder. You're going to be in trouble before I get to the top. Now when I get close to the top of my ladder with my end, I can probably just about balance that I beam on your toe. I'm not going to have much weight at all. Of course I know that I don't have a prayer of lifting that I beam up off of your toe -and dead lifting it all by myself, because I can't lift the full 400 lbs. But I don't have to have near that much lift to just get it upright, because you've already run out of lift and set your end on your toe.

Sorry about your toe, but we are "tandem" lifting - and the book says you won't ever get more than 1/2 the weight. You can tell that to your smashed toe.

Ever carry a piano up a stairs? You want to be the top man or the bottom man?

Lets push it to cranes. Ever stand something up with only one crane? Leaving one end on the ground.

It doesn't take near as much crane once you get close to straight up and down, because a lot of the weight is on the ground. The tail crane when you are uprighting is the "ground". Doesn't matter if its hanging from a crane or setting on the ground, its still more weight on the bottom.

I'm constantly amazed by people that think gravity works differently, just because they have a fancy drawing. Don't worry, you aren't the first person to make a mistake.


And if you still think I'm wrong, I've got a 400 lbs I-beam at my shop and a ladder, I can show you how the real world works, rather than a drawing. Better bring your steel toe boots. Because it doesn't matter if its 400lbs or 400 tons, it still works the same way.

job picture.jpg
 

Big Iron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Project Manager
Lets throw out all your fancy drawings, and just use a little common sense. I know that's hard if you're a "project manager" but lets put the hard hat back on for a little bit.
as I said I started in friction cranes in the 60,s and was still running cranes in the 2000,s your PM comment is about as inaccurate as the rest of your assumptions. we all know what opinions are like and everyone has one. I try to back mine up with facts, not Maple limbs and ladders. If you stop and think about pushing something up a ladder as opposed to pulling it up from above you may begin to understand the "fancy drawings" as for your cartoon at the end that also tells me something. Thankfully I never had to work under your hook. That's right I started out with 2 years oiling/rigging on a 4100 Manitowoc, damn thing didn't even have a computer!!!!! I dont mean to **** anyone off I will have my thoughts and you are welcome to yours. On that note have a good day
One of my smaller tandum lifts.

upload_2020-4-26_13-33-11.jpeg
 

Big Iron

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
219
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Project Manager
SX 45 16v71 Allison yes bed tandum about 115,000 empty they are a horse had 4 of them and 2 prime movers Ill postsome photos when I get back to house
 
Top