best size for septic

[67kato]

TLB vs Mini

For typical trenches we use the jd310 TLB. It has an extendahoe to dig the trenches quick and a 1.25 cy bucket for the gravel. Lately we tried our mini JD 35D and a compact track loader in a head to head competition. They were very close. Problem is that I have to bring two machines instead of one. Be careful not to compact the soil. Mini and CTL are better in tight areas.

Plastic tank note: use fralo or synder tanks; they are strong and no need to fill with water just compact under the ribs as tou backfill.

 

[danregan]

For typical trenches we use the jd310 TLB. It has an extendahoe to dig the trenches quick and a 1.25 cy bucket for the gravel. Lately we tried our mini JD 35D and a compact track loader in a head to head competition. They were very close. Problem is that I have to bring two machines instead of one. Be careful not to compact the soil. Mini and CTL are better in tight areas.

Plastic tank note: use fralo or synder tanks; they are strong and no need to fill with water just compact under the ribs as tou backfill.

+1 on the Fralo. Big fan- though the ones Ive used dont meet the minimum depth for invert to bottom, and needed a special nod from the health dept.

 

[OMB]

alexis, I think it depends the type of systems you do. I agree with 67kato, a mini such as 35D is very efficient but it largely depends on if you do new work or replacements. I did a replacement a couple of weeks ago that my KOM 200 would have been overkill and required alot more restoration than a smaller machine, over the years I have done replacements where the 200 simply would not fit, bigger is not necessarily better. On new work the 200 is there digging the foundation hole and there is always enough room to work. As DGODGR stated, the precast truck sets the tank(s) so I don't need to be concerned with lift capacity. I have heard some jurisdictions do not allow the use of a wheeled or track machine over the leaching area so that kinda forces you to an excavator.

 

[CBS]

i just put in 2 1000gs tanks today and my 315 wouldnt lift em with the lids my 320dl lifted em no prob

 

[danregan]

if your 315 wouldnt lift a 1000g tank, you should get it checked out. My 315B lifts them no prob.

 

[DGODGR]

i just put in 2 1000gs tanks today and my 315 wouldnt lift em with the lids my 320dl lifted em no prob

if your 315 wouldnt lift a 1000g tank, you should get it checked out. My 315B lifts them no prob.

I have an '03 315CL. It will struggle to lift the 1,000 gallon tank, which weighs about 10,000# (the max lift available, above ground line, per the machines literature). My machine is equipped with the long under carriage (hence the "L"), a long dipper (10'-2") and a coupler. It also has the reach boom but I think that most 315s come that way (very few 315s with the M.E. arrangement) so it may not be worth mentioning. All the things I have mentioned factor in to how much the machine can lift. If it had a shorter dipper it would give up some reach but would gain in breakout and lift capacity. When I lift a tank I must remove the bucket to increase my lift capacity. With the hydraulic coupler (Cat pin grabber, wedge style) this is easy. The bucket I use for tank holes, leaching trenches, and fields is a Cat HD 36" bucket. It's VERY stout so it probably weighs around 2,500#. Comparing a 315 to a 315 may not be apples to apples unless they have the same arrangement.

 

[danregan]

true enough. My 315B has 1200# coupler and a long (10' 1") stick. I lift without the bucket too. just sayin.

 

[Speedfill]

I have hard time to understand how you guys can install septic system with backhoes....I did a septic installation last week that was a set of concrete tank(Septic tank and Bio-Reactor),I had a Hitachi 220, the hydraulic system needed to raise the pressure at max and the back of the machine begun really light as i was lifting them individualy. I think that a Cat320 or Hitachi200's size is the best for these jobs.With a machine that big, you have more distance that you can reach with alot of power and a reasonnable size for most of the jobsites....At least, you could rent a little machine if you need to do the job in very tight corners as i did. I did most of the job with a Cat 304, but i dropped the tanks in holes and fill back mostly with the 220.

 

[bigbob]

I never have to set a tank. The precaster brings a truck with a boom crane mounted on it. Depending on the size of the field and how much room is avaliable, I will either use my 307 or 311CU. Sometimes i will bring a D3C Hystat to push the sand in for a mounded system, which most of our systems are. We did a couple of school systems, one had two 46' x 100' beds with 650 Enviroseptic tubes. We had 2 D 3's , a 311 CU, and a 312. We had to dig out the failed pipe and stone system first. Took 3 of us 5 weeks to complete.

 

[lgammon]

our tank guys set the tanks. why would you bother doing it your self unless a really bad site? i mean i am in east tennessee and we do a lot of places that are no fun but if you have a backhoe why not just take a bit of the dirt from the tank hole and build a little road to the tank hole for the truck? i don't think our 1000 gallon tanks wiegh any where near 10,000 i would say 6-7 max. i don't think that having a 200 on a site for a job that takes a backhoe 6-7 hours is cost effective. i mean with that size you have to move with a tractor and lowboy instead of taking a backhoe behind a dump, with this setup just drop the smaller trailer on site and start hauling rock while the other guy gets the tank hole dug and set. then about the time he is done hauling, you are ready to put in the leech lines, end of day get it inspected and cover up, and haul it home. one truck to move the big stuff and one with the tools. this is how every one here does it, if we tryed to bring in 200 size machines we would need to have 200 per hour and price our selfs out of business, there is just more cost effective ways to do it.

 

[DGODGR]

our tank guys set the tanks. why would you bother doing it your self unless a really bad site? i mean i am in east tennessee and we do a lot of places that are no fun but if you have a backhoe why not just take a bit of the dirt from the tank hole and build a little road to the tank hole for the truck? i don't think our 1000 gallon tanks wiegh any where near 10,000 i would say 6-7 max. i don't think that having a 200 on a site for a job that takes a backhoe 6-7 hours is cost effective. i mean with that size you have to move with a tractor and lowboy instead of taking a backhoe behind a dump, with this setup just drop the smaller trailer on site and start hauling rock while the other guy gets the tank hole dug and set. then about the time he is done hauling, you are ready to put in the leech lines, end of day get it inspected and cover up, and haul it home. one truck to move the big stuff and one with the tools. this is how every one here does it, if we tryed to bring in 200 size machines we would need to have 200 per hour and price our selfs out of business, there is just more cost effective ways to do it.

I also found it hard to believe that those tanks are that heavy. The tanks that we buy have 4" thick walls and roofs, and I think the floor is 6" thick. I would imagine that they are pretty much the same everywhere. Traffic rated tanks are much heavier and MUCH more expensive.
I haul my 315 behind my dump truck (on a triaxle trailer) and I could haul a 20 metric tonner, legally, if I had one. So my set up fits your model but with one exception. I can move MUCH more dirt in an hour than a backhoe. I think that $200/hour is too high for a 20 ton hoe but no matter the price per hour it all boils down to how much dirt you move in that hour. In theory a higher price per hour could end up being less expensive for a given task. 99% of the systems I do are fixed price anyway so it all boils down to my cost to get the job done.
I know that the excavator does not efficiently tram material, such as rock, around the site but I will use it if I don't have to travel far or if I can back the truck to the edge of the field, and dump sand or rock in the field. I often use my A300 (skid steer) to tram material if it works out time wise. I can haul it behind the pick up (or the truck that hauls the tools, as you put it) so it really doesn't add much to the cost. If there are very large quantities I simply bring in the 3yd loader. Yes, it does cost more to mobe it in but it will make that up fast if you are moving large amounts of material.
I agree with you that it does not make sense to haul in a 200 for a 6-7 hour backhoe job if it costs more to haul it or if your machine costs are not overcome by the additional productivity that machine. For me it cost the same to mobe either machine.
One last thing. If you can do a system in 6 to 7 hours with a backhoe than you and I are not building the same kind of systems anyway. Most of mine take a few days to build. The last one I did had a 2400 sq. ft field.

 

[lgammon]

most here are 1 tank, no distribution box. we cross over ditch to ditch. then 330 liner foot of three foot wide ditches. 235 feet if we can use panels

 

[LT-x7]

So my set up fits your model but with one exception. I can move MUCH more dirt in an hour than a backhoe. I think that $200/hour is too high for a 20 ton hoe but no matter the price per hour it all boils down to how much dirt you move in that hour. In theory a higher price per hour could end up being less expensive for a given task.

I'm positive your excavator can move a lot more dirt than a backhoe if your moving it 30ft, how about when it needs to move 80ft?

One thing I've learned on here is that septic systems are built very differently in different parts of the country. Around here if everything goes as planned, easy site (lots of room, not steep) two guys who work good together and a backhoe could finish a system in 6-7 working hours. But your still going to have to wait on the inspector to back fill. :Banghead So 2-3 actual days.

 

[lgammon]

we are good friends with most inspectors around here. so we call in the morning and tell them we will be ready in the afternoon. it works most days. i am not saying all days go this well but this is the plan most days!!

 

[DGODGR]

I'm positive your excavator can move a lot more dirt than a backhoe if your moving it 30ft, how about when it needs to move 80ft?

One thing I've learned on here is that septic systems are built very differently in different parts of the country. Around here if everything goes as planned, easy site (lots of room, not steep) two guys who work good together and a backhoe could finish a system in 6-7 working hours. But your still going to have to wait on the inspector to back fill. :Banghead So 2-3 actual days.

I see your point. As I mentioned, in the post that you quoted, I can use my skid steer (that can be pulled to the site behind the pick up that will be there anyway) or if the quantities are high enough I will mobe on the 3 yard loader.
I also agree with your point about not building the same type of system (the point I was trying to make when I commented that we are probably not doing the same kind of system).
I used to live in CA and the systems we did there were much simpler than the ones we have to do here. Things may be different out there now though. It has been 20 years since the last one I did out there. A lot can change in 20 years.

 

[LT-x7]

I knew exactly the point you were trying to make, I just had to bust your chops on the excavator comment.

Thinks may not have changed as much out here as you would assume. Looking at the systems others around the county install, I'm amazed at how simple our systems are.

 

[driller97]

We always let the tank company set the tank and use a mini with a 3 ft bucket and a CTL