BAD miss, may have major trouble! 1967 580ck. Roughest backhoe in captivity.

[War Eagle]

Packratc, I realize that you've got your hands fulll here.......I have quickly read through these 8 pages (the pictures are great), from what you've found out - do you still think this is a result of when you ran out of fuel and then some excessive either in trying to get it restarted?? Good luck with getting her back together, while all of this is unfortunate - it is alot of good information. Take care.

 

[packratc]

Ah War Eagle! You ask heap good question about this heap! My best guess & I do mean a guess is this: I started out with a well-worn old hoe who's mechanics have been even worst than me. Looks like to me it had been in to and had a sleeve kit put in it some time ago. At that time they put a carpenter's square across the head and determined the head to be warped. They slapped on two head gaskets and went to work. It went through several owners all of which believed in the magic of either. None of the these ever stored the hoe inside. When I ran out of fuel the junk in the fuel tank emptied into the lower filter & plugged it up. Even though I thought of it, I was not smart enought to stop & replace the filters right then. I was too intent on getting it out of the mud pit that I hope will grow up to be a pond. Had I replaced the filters right then & bled the system, I mighth have been OK and limped along with an underpowered hoe that ran on all four. According to the head machinest, I guess he was the head machinest, he owned the shop, the gasket(s) were/had been blown for some time. (Maybe one was blown and the other was holding on.). I can only tell you what he said. Remember the back two cylinders only showed 300 & 275 lbs of compression. It should have read 400. The crankshaft bearings could have gone on a long time. The rods showed some copper, severall quite a bit, in the upper halves. I think they always will due to the exteme compression, however that may have been caused by excessive ether use by me, but probably by previous owners. Who's to know? This deal may cost me $900 to $1100, without labor, but that's just a guess. If I get away without sleeves leaking & the head to front cover gasket holds, & I bend no more pushrods, I'll be OK with it. (I do think that the valves were way out of adjustment & that I bent the two pushrods with the ether.) You must take all of this as guess work. The hoe was broke, she's getting a fix, and now I'm broke. Such is the way of the world. Packratc

 

[War Eagle]

Thanks for the recap....I have to say, you are taking this all in stride; but then again, whenever anyone even thinks about owning or working an "old" piece of equipment such as this (and the one we own, 1973 model Case 580B) you have to be prepared - mentally - for things such as this to happen. One of the bright sides to this is that even if you pay a nice sum for a late model tractor - you can still have these kind of problems, which is not the case here. The best of luck, I'm looking forward to following your progress. Thanks again.

 

[packratc]

You're very kind with your comments, War Eagle. I could easily say that anyone buying an old hoe should have on hand or be prepared to put forth another two thousand or so within a few months of purchase. I have quite a few junk cars and trucks and my rule there is that every vehicle I buy will need another $500 added to it within a short time. These guesstimates only apply to me, though. If you buy a hoe you know, you know you know where she's been. Buy a stranger and you might buy danger. Packratc

 

[packratc]

 

[packratc]

What you see here is obviously bolts & washers holding #'s 2 & 3 liners in place while I turn the crankshaft to put in the other two. What is not so obvious is that this is the first time I've posted a picture w/o my wife standing over me giving instructions. Maybe I can do it again! Packratc

 

[packratc]

 

[packratc]

Hot Dang, I did it again! This is looking down hole #2 of they roughest 580CK in captivity. For those who've not been there, top ledge that looks about 1/8th of an inch wide is where your sleeves sit. The hole going down in is the machined surface about 1 1/4 inch deep is where your rubber seals seat to seal the water around the sleeves & away from the oil. Under the crankshaft you can see my work surface. It's what we here call limestone gravel. The large light colored mass at the left is my left forefinger. (A little of myself in each and every photo.) Packratc

 

[alrman]

Packratc, you never listened to your teacher when you were in school did you ?????
All 4 liners needed to be fitted & protusion checked, why can I see 2 liners fitted with pistons ??? rofessor
I hope you have omitted to tell us you have indeed done this & not had photo evidence.......

 

[packratc]

Alrman, you've caught me & I am embarrassed and ready to take my punishment. I took the advise of the machine shop man and slapped it together w/o checking the protrusion. I asked him about it he said the cutting of the head would be fine. I guess we'll find out if I screwed up. The instructions that came with the kit made no mention of it. No, I never listened to teachers in school. It took me 8 years to get a college degree. I will accept your admonishmnets
and you'll never see me cry. By-the-by, what's the worse that can happen to my project? (Look at it this way: If my motor fails you can say "I told you so!) Packratc

 

[packratc]

Don't know that I'll need it but does anyone have experiance with the Harbor Freight radiator/cooling system checking tool? They're about $120 and might not be a bad tool to own. Does anyone know if it incudes an adapter that might fit these old backhoes and such equipment? Appreciate your input? (Haven't got mine back together yet so don't know if I'll need it.) Packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc !!! Listen to Alrman. Check the liner protrusion on ALL of those sleeves before putting the head on. It is of utmost importance. One thing to consider is that there is possibility something could have gotten under the top ledge of a sleeve and prevent it from being completely seated in the block. At least lay a straight edge, and I mean a STRAIGHT one, across all the liners after they are in and check that they are all the same height.

 

[packratc]

OK! OK! I've got to get back in you all's graces. Here's where I is. Been sick for a few days and haven't been out to work. When I left it we'd put the head on and hand tightened only. The rocker arms are not on, no water, no oil. The front gasket and three bolts including the hollow one behind the water pump are back in. The water pump is not in, just the housing. Do you all recommend taking the head back off, removing the studs, fastening down the sleeves with the washers and measuring them all? I have a magnetic base and a plunge micrometer if I can find it. let me know what you think. At this point all's it will cost me is a couple more days work and maybe a head gasket and sleeve sealing rubber gaskets. I may also get some advise from the diesel mechanics that loaned me the sleeve puller and see what their experiances with this have been. OH MAN! That means pulling the oil pan back off and the pump arm and possibly pulling and swapping some sleeves. Also, are you all saying that the minimum I should do is pull the head back off and see put a straight edge across all the sleeve tops and insure that they're all between .003to .005 of each other. Will that do it? Thanks, Packratc

 

[Tinkerer]

Packratc: Remember or ever hear of Murphy's Law ? Myself I would do whatever it takes to verify that those sleeves are within the tolerances that are specified in the Case repair manual. Even if you have to pull and swap a couple of them (which I doubt). I assume you checked the block deck for flatness before putting the sleeves in. If it isn't then it will show up when you check across the four sleeves with a straight edge.

 

[shopguy]

Pull and swap ??Packratc if you do have a low one just pull the pan and bump the low sleeve up get you some shims (for that sleeve) cut the shim put it under the flange knock her back down tite .Some kits come with the shims.

 

[packratc]

Tinkerer & shopguy, When I do all this will I have to replace the head gasket that is already on the hoe? It is not torqued, just tightened with a ratchet. Probably not more than 30 ft lbs. has been applied. So, I have to drop the pan & knock one up, so-to-speak, what about the sleeve seals. I know I don't have to knock it up so far as to get them above their sealing area but will they still seal? No, I didn't check the deck eveness. The head man said that he was confident that it would be fine. Packratc

 

[shopguy]

If you do take it off ?? No i would reuse the gasket and dont worry about 2 or 3 thousanths over the limit the gasket will take up that much.I think the 2 blown gaskets was the red flag. maybe they are ok but if you lubed the o rings they will be fine

 

[packratc]

Well, I took it back off & will include pics later. But a new & immediate issue has come up. I have a neighbor working for me. He's a long time friend & makes his living as a handyman. As I went about other things today I had hime torque the head to 70 & them to 100. Told him to work from the middle of the head out to both ends. I went by him one time & he was fumbling some with his phone. Didn't think much about it. He said he was done in a few minutes. Went back to start on the rocker arms &/or water pump & noticed he hadn't tightened any of four short outer head bolts on the left side. These are the outer bolts on the injector pump side. He picked up the wrench torqued them to 100. Now I'm sitting here wondering I should back off all the head bolts and retorque in the proper sequence. Give me your best advise. I've gott'a do it first thing in the morning or let it go. Thanks for your input, Packratc

 

[alrman]

You are a very trusting fellow packratc......
I would not worry about it, - but, I would check the final tension of all the nuts & bolts again - starting at the middle - just to be sure......

tip - as you check the tensions, mark each bolt as done with a white marking pen or similar - more professional advice you will probably never use

 

[willie59]

I agree with alrman, outer bolts torque em down and move on, don't worry about it. Many things about engine assembly require precision, but some only require good enough, funny thing about engines. However, your buddy needs to learn that there are times that one should simply allow the cell phone to vibrate in ones pocket until the battery is dead.