Auxiliary transmission or 13 speed? Question for old timers, err experienced drivers!

[oifla]

Hello all,

Looking for advice from 'experienced' hands here. I'm gathering parts for a one and a half ton build. I'm building a truck that I hope will have range. I need it to be able to haul equipment when necessary but I also want to do 70mph on the interstate comfortably.

Here's the question: should I consider using an auxiliary transmission (e.g. a Brownie box) or go straight to a 13 speed?

I have seat time in a 13 speed and have an idea of how one would perform in the application I have in mind, I have no experience with the auxiliary transmission/Brownie box.

What advice can you all share on the Brownies?

Thanks!
o.

 

[Junkyard]

What motor? Rear end ratio? If you used an auxiliary what trans would be in front of it? What are you hauling? Honestly a gear vendors overdrive might be a good choice. A 13 over would need air if you don’t have it, might have to swap bellhousings etc depending on the motor. Auxiliaries are also their own challenge between required mounts and getting driveline angles right. The old brownies are getting harder to find not to mention parts for them are getting scarce. Anything bigger would be overkill and take a fair amount of HP to run. A 13 would take a few extra HP to turn as well.

 

[Truck Shop]

Well to be polite--your trying to do what everyone wants and stay away from a CDL, correct.
1.5 ton with a bunch of gears that will crawl, pull a 35' goose neck and still do 70 to the grocery store,
loaded. This has been done/tried before---but sounds as though you have already started so work
away. It takes torque in a wide band and allot of it to achieve that goal.
*

 

[1693TA]

This is a 2013 F-650 Ford medium duty. It has a V-10 gasoline engine and six speed automatic transmission. I cut this truck down from a 26' "Budget" rental van and installed the flatbed and gooseneck hitch to make it usable to the dealership. That 8070 Allis-Chalmers tractor on the gooseneck trailer is ballasted in all six tires; it is heavy. I hauled this tractor almost 330 miles one way. I think that tractor was pushing 27,000# the way it was set up and the truck really had no problems handing it. Here is a link:

TractorData.com Allis Chalmers 8070 tractor dimensions information

www.tractordata.com

The truck will run through 80mph with ease too. Not sure you are going to use a 1-1/2 ton truck harder than this but these photos are not the first get go, nor the last since the photos were snapped. I've had 8970 New Holland tractors on with duals front and rear too picked up and delivered the same way though not near that distance.

 

[Pops52]

I would stick with what the factory engineers designed. JMO

 

[Jumbo]

I would stick with what the factory engineers designed. JMO

Second that. Unless you have lots of time and money, you probably cannot beat a building with over 1000 automotive engineers designing. But, if this is a hobby project, I don't thing adding a brownie is feasible with the length of the driveline. But, what do I know.

 

[oifla]

What motor? Rear end ratio? If you used an auxiliary what trans would be in front of it? What are you hauling? Honestly a gear vendors overdrive might be a good choice. A 13 over would need air if you don’t have it, might have to swap bellhousings etc depending on the motor. Auxiliaries are also their own challenge between required mounts and getting driveline angles right. The old brownies are getting harder to find not to mention parts for them are getting scarce. Anything bigger would be overkill and take a fair amount of HP to run. A 13 would take a few extra HP to turn as well.

I have a good DT360. Currently paired with a 5 Speed (no overdrive) hence looking into options.

Hauling is pretty limited to my equipment, none of which is going to scare anyone on this site. When working it will be pulling digging equipment. Right now that's a mini excavator and a tractor (can fit both on my 26 ft trailer), in the future I might put a bigger tractor or a skid steer on there. Weight-wise it's not going to scare anyone on this page (probably never anything over 25k lbs including the trailer weight).

Needing air is not a problem. Driveline angles might be.

o.

 

[oifla]

Well to be polite--your trying to do what everyone wants and stay away from a CDL, correct.
1.5 ton with a bunch of gears that will crawl, pull a 35' goose neck and still do 70 to the grocery store,
loaded. This has been done/tried before---but sounds as though you have already started so work
away. It takes torque in a wide band and allot of it to achieve that goal.

I appreciate your direct approach. Yes, it is a bit of a unicorn project, no issue acknowledging that. Sometimes it is easier to go and buy whatever you need off the shelf and be done with it. This is a project / build so the target and purpose is a little different.

The engine I want to use has a decent power band and I know it can handle the loads I will be putting behind it. In the setup I've used before the limiting factor was the lack of overdrive so I'm addressing that in the newer configuration.

o.

 

[oifla]

The truck will run through 80mph with ease too. Not sure you are going to use a 1-1/2 ton truck harder than this but these photos are not the first get go, nor the last since the photos were snapped. I've had 8970 New Holland tractors on with duals front and rear too picked up and delivered the same way though not near that distance.

Looks like a good build, very nice! I definitely will not be using the truck harder than that, holy crap those are some loads.

o.

 

[skyking1]

building something divorced like that can be a great can of worms unless that is what you do.
Driveline angles and dynamic resonance and mounting fabrication, get it wrong and it is plagued with troubles. The guys that do this right are few and far between.
When you get done, a brownie makes a heck of a racket in the best of conditions.

 

[oifla]

Second that. Unless you have lots of time and money, you probably cannot beat a building with over 1000 automotive engineers designing. But, if this is a hobby project, I don't thing adding a brownie is feasible with the length of the driveline. But, what do I know.

I would stick with what the factory engineers designed. JMO

Thanks - I understand this is not the cheapest / most efficient road but I've been building cars and trucks for the last 30 years, not going to just turn that off. This is a project build, there will be compromises no doubt but I think I can get it done and come up with something that will work for me. I have the 'buy stock' voice in my thoughts here and there but I have yet to find the truck that meets my needs/purposes in stock guise.

o.

 

[oifla]

building something divorced like that can be a great can of worms unless that is what you do.
Driveline angles and dynamic resonance and mounting fabrication, get it wrong and it is plagued with troubles. The guys that do this right are few and far between.
When you get done, a brownie makes a heck of a racket in the best of conditions.

I'm aware of the challenges of drive angles, have no experience with Brownies so I appreciate you passing that along. All the info I've been able to find on them is via YouTube and forum posts, neither of which is like being in the truck and feeling it personally.

o.

 

[1693TA]

A good chassis all around is either a 4700, or 4900 series International. Easy to get into and out of with good visibility and road manners. If it were me and I had a known good DT-360 engine I'd go with a single over, or direct nine speed small Fuller transmission myself. The 13 speeds are nice but not needed and really no advantage to gain with your application. A 3.55, or 3.73 ratio rear and a single over, or direct drive transmission will carry you through your desired parameters.

 

[cuttin edge]

Most times it's not going you need to worry about, it's stopping.

 

[Coaldust]

Nice rig, Oifla. Looks like She gets er’ done.
If you do put two boxes in her, make sure to go with tall sticks with sparkly plastic handles.

 

[1693TA]

Most times it's not going you need to worry about, it's stopping.

Either of those chassis have adequate braking capacity for the task(s) presented in my opinion. I've owned and operated both series much heavier than the proposals, but with the DT-466 engine. However my driving style is not of an aggressive stance usually.

Another transmission that is nice is an RTL0-14610 series which is commonly referred to as a "Super 10". These are smooth and quiet to operate with good gear spacing. Finding the series with an SAE #2 bell will be easy as they were common.

 

[IceHole]

Either of those chassis have adequate braking capacity for the task(s) presented in my opinion. I've owned and operated both series much heavier than the proposals, but with the DT-466 engine. However my driving style is not of an aggressive stance usually.

Another transmission that is nice is an RTL0-14610 series which is commonly referred to as a "Super 10". These are smooth and quiet to operate with good gear spacing. Finding the series with an SAE #2 bell will be easy as they were common.

I hate 10 speeds with a passion. The pattern hurts my brain after learning on an 18 and running those patterns for years (18, 13, 8ll, 9, etc). Even 5&4 makes or Mack 12 speed make more sense to me

 

[1693TA]

I hate 10 speeds with a passion. The pattern hurts my brain after learning on an 18 and running those patterns for years (18, 13, 8ll, 9, etc). Even 5&4 makes or Mack 12 speed make more sense to me

I have a couple of the Mack 12, and 10 speeds and like them very well. Basically the five reverse speeds are nice. Also have Fuller 13 speeds and like them also. Only have a single Fuller nine speed and it's older but very smooth in power application behind a 6V-92TA engine. (Better stop talking about that one before TS starts drooling). The Super 10 is great if maintained and doesn't have that knee slamming position on the upshift for sixth gear. Not rowing the shifter has it's advantages but they do take some getting used to without doubt. Same with the Mack 10, and 12 speed TRD-107X series.

 

[gwhammy]

Two speed rearend might fit the need if one can even be found.

 

[1693TA]

Two speed rearend might fit the need if one can even be found.

Then you need the correct transmission to take advantage of that design.

Like a "root cellar" in the yard, or "ice box" in the house to store and keep food fresh, this is all old technology that still works but not much desire for any longer. An automatic transmission installed behind that engine would make it more pleasant to drive and work just as hard when needed.