Automated Manual Transmissions AMT

[Pony]

Hi all, looking at new trucks at the moment and would like a bit of advice please.
Truck will be a bogie drive rigid, probably of Japanese make.
Having said that, several of the Japanese brands are now owned by Europeans eg Mercedes and Volvo, so there is some crossover on some specs.
One truck I'm considering is the Fuso Shogun FV74 XLWB.
Specs attached.
It has a rebadged Detroit DT12 gearbox.
Anyone got anything good or bad to say about the gearbox?
There is no other box optioned in my wheelbase, so its that box or a different truck.
I will be the only driver and truck will be purchased new and will only see about 20,000km a year, I am 50yrs old and would like the truck to be able to see me out.
In 20yrs will only have 400,000km but will all the electrics last 20yrs?
Thanks

 

[Truck Shop]

The early DT12's had a neutral actuator pin problem/would lock out drive and reverse until transmission would warm up, but sometimes it would stay locked out and never shift.
And some harness issues. The later 2018 and up seem to be a better transmission. The DT12 is proprietary on transmission repair information, Detroit only. If it ever has to
be towed or moved even a short distance say 25' the drive shaft has to be removed or serious damage will occur. It uses 14 quarts 75 x 90 synthetic oil.

I don't know if that helps but info on those is slim, we run 60 plus of them and the highest mileage is 400,000 on ours at the moment. As said the later model is not as bad a unit
as the early ones but a good reference is will it make 750,000 without major issues, we don't know that yet. But the early ones we had were on the hook regularly.

 

[Pony]

Thanks for that TruckShop.
I did a search and saw a few mentions of the box but no real info.
Do you have any experience driving one?
I'll be taking one for a test drive in a few weeks.
I spoke to one bloke who came from an 18spd into an AMT box and loved driving it, but turns his trucks over every 5yrs so has no experience with age vs miles.
In the rigid trucks over here the lower hp trucks have simple 6 or 9spd gearboxes while the higher speck/hp trucks seem to have the AMT with no option of the standard gearbox.
The lower hp trucks usually also have an Allison auto option but I'm not interested in that.
Thanks

 

[Birken Vogt]

I don't know anything about AMTs but I do observe that these electronic whatevers lead to pretty quick obsolescence. Even if that transmission is the latest and greatest now, in 15 years some part you need will probably be unavailable and the manufacturer will be on to something else latest and greatest and tell you and your antique to go away.

 

[Truck Shop]

I don't know anything about AMTs but I do observe that these electronic whatevers lead to pretty quick obsolescence. Even if that transmission is the latest and greatest now, in 15 years some part you need will probably be unavailable and the manufacturer will be on to something else latest and greatest and tell you and your antique to go away.

That's true to a point but the AMT's are not going away. Nothing this age in design will stay the same for long.
It's built partially as a constant source of revenue for the manufacture/dealer and because manuals cause a
driver to have to think, we can't have that.

There are three modes-automatic shift, manual shift and performance shift there is also a coast mode
for mileage. The best way to descend a grade is slide the button to manual mode at the top of the
grade and punch the button on end of stalk till it drops to he correct gear for descending grade on the jake.
There is also a way to descend a grade using cruise control.

 

[Nige]

No thoughts about a Volvo (i-shift) or a Scania (Opticruise), or are they a bit on the pricey side where you are compared to the Fuso..?

 

[Truck Shop]

The DT12 is roughly $18,000 outright, as a package I don't know. A new Eaton RTLO18913A is
$11,000 outright brand new.

 

[Pony]

Nige, the Fuso is the cheapest in that hp bracket with the AMT. I did look at a UD which is owned by Volvo and has a rebadged i-drive 12spd. Didn't drive it but little things stood out, spring suspension seat not air, cab front fixed, only suspension on rear.
Also more expensive, but I'm not shopping for the cheapest, I'd like the best bang for my buck, like I said, hopefully this will be my last truck purchase so I need reliability over the next 20yrs, if that costs more than so be it.
Do you have any experience between the Japanese and European offerings?
Also TruckShop, the motor in the Fuso is a Mercedes motor that is rebadged as a Detroit DD11, does your fleet run that motor with the AMT's?
If so what is your experience with it?
My wheelbase gets 395hp, other wheelbases get 460hp.
Thanks all for the input.

 

[Truck Shop]

All we run are DD15 and DD16 engines.

 

[Nige]

Mercedes motors appear to have a less-than-stellar reputation in the US, but everone else seems to like them. We had them in Africa years ago and they were damn-nigh unbusrtable.
TBH I'd have a Volvo or a Scania engine before a Merc but that's more from recent personal experience because I have none as far as Merc is concerned.

Oz is a kinda weird place truck-wise. On the one hand you have locally-built Kenworths, on the other locally-built European offerings from most of the major manufacturers.

 

[Queenslander]

In the rigid trucks over here the lower hp trucks have simple 6 or 9spd gearboxes while the higher speck/hp trucks seem to have the AMT with no option of the standard gearbox.
Thanks

I believe Hino offer RTLO18 speed or AMT in all their 700 series.

 

[Truck Shop]

The engine Mercedes is trying to live down is the MB4000, because of the DD designation on the Mercedes engine people don't really think of as a Mercedes product.
All they see and here is DD15-the rest is out of sight out of mind.

 

[Pony]

Yeah Queenslander, they do, I probably didn't word that very well, I meant in the 280-400hp bracket, before getting into the big guys, eg 700 series.
I really only need the 350hp that Hino has in the 500 series, but the step up to 400hp in the Fuso is only 5K over the Hino, hence my interest .
The Fuso seems like a whole lot more truck for the money.
In fact without driving either it appeared much better than the 390hp UD Quon, which was about 30K more expensive.
Do you have any first-hand (or second-hand) experience with the newer Japanese trucks?
I've got a 2002 Isuzu that's been trouble free and a 2015 Iveco that's been nothing but trouble. I don't know anyone with the new stuff and any internet reviews seem to be positive for every truck ever made.
Thanks

 

[Queenslander]

Iam afraid Iam a bit of a Hino tragic.
We have two FF177s that date back to the mid eighties, just farm trucks now but they are still used almost every week and rarely give trouble.
Also a 2001 GH that has been ultra reliable.
Finally, a little 2014 300 series crew cab.
Doesn’t seem to be much between the four Japanese makers these days.

 

[Pony]

Well I took the Fuso for a bit of a drive.
The AMT certainly takes some getting used to but having said that it certainly made life easy in stop/start traffic leaving Toowoomba.
I was surprised at how smooth it was at slow speed manuvering as I had heard some bad things, but this thing was faultless.
The truck seemed to be geared a little high, 1800ish rpm at 100kph while the shorter wheelbase prime mover gets 1500rpm at 100kph.
My wheelbase variant also gets 3 seats, which I need, but as it appears to be a add on from the two seat prime mover the middle seat is very uncomfortable.
Build quality in the cab appears good, no rattles etc, overall fairly impressed.

 

[Tenwheeler]

The older Hinos did quite well as Queenslander said. The latter models not so much so.
Local Hino dealers do not share any information. I would expect to be able to get torque specs after you buy $5,500.00 worth of parts for a 4 cylinder. NO! My new age tech pulled all that up on his phone for free.
Local fuel pump shop could not get any specs for the injectors. Said all the spray patterns were good. Pressures and flow were similar to another Jap similar size type truck. We cannot get parts or injectors for this. We put them back in.
Two years latter dealer said it needs 4 injectors and a DPF. About $8,000.00. Truck is in the bushes, refer box is on an Isuzu.