Apps or programs for recording blading

[biggrader]

OK, this thread is probably more for those that work for public entities...... but my question is. Does anyone know of an app or computer program that they use to record which roads they have done and when or is everyone doing this manually ( with spreadsheets or such). Nothing worse than Joe Public telling you that you havent been on their road for over a month when you do it every couple weeks. Would be nice to not have to go to the office and dig out the paperwork to stick it in their face, but dont have room for months of paperwork in the blade either.

 

[Fatgraderman]

I think we all get that, and it drives me up the wall.:Banghead We have GPS in the graders but the only ones that have access to it are the guys in the office that monitor it :bash I carry a journal, when they rip me a new one, I can read off every time I did their road for the last year, how many passes or if I recorded anything special. It does no good. They don't get any satisfaction, and I don't get any satisfaction. That's the one aspect of working the front lines that I don't appreciate.

 

[biggrader]

The reason I post this question is that I would like to explore the idea of developing ( or finding an already existing) program or app that would work with an Ipad or such that would use the GPS and maps to determine where one is at. example... when I get to township rd 111, I would press a start button and then log the time that was spent on Twnshp rd 111, when i get done with that road just hit stop and it would store the time, date, notes and other information. Then to look up all one would have to do is a search for Twnshp Rd 111 and it would display all the dates, times and information that was recorded. I have a lot of ideas ( too much time spent in the seat ) that could be incorporated but would this work? At the end of the month, just type in the township name and it would print out a map, highlighted with all of the roads and days that they were bladed. Just some thoughts. Anything you would like to add?

 

[biggrader]

Just as a note, I am by no means smart enough to write a program myself. I would have to find a developer that would like to work for peanuts!!!

 

[Fatgraderman]

something like one of these? The one says it can be used in Canada, be nice if the Logitfleetcare one worked here too. maybe it does.
http://www.vehiclelog.com.au/
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/logitfleetcare/id540306910?mt=8

 

[biggrader]

Thanks. I have found many different apps that have some of the features but haven't found anything that is industry specific. If I could combine portions of 6 or 7 different apps into one that would be the cats meow.

 

[Silveroddo]

An excel spreadsheet on a smart phone could be set up pretty easily, the thing would be setting it up so you could load it into a searchable data base at the end of the day..... That's the part that's fuzzy to me, but I know its probably not a real complicated thing to do.

I've been meaning to do something like this for awhile for cost and production tracking. May have to play with the idea a little more.

 

[biggrader]

Silveroddo, I have thought about that but was hoping to come up with something that did it automatically. Using GPS I was hoping to have it log when I was on that road. If a person could put in the GPS coordinates of the start and end of the road, it would be easy for the program to log the time that you have spent on that road. I have many roads that are shared between two different townships. I bill one township for the time and they in turn bill the adjoining township for 1/2 the expense, but keeping it separate is a pain. Maybe Im just getting lazy in my old age.

 

[TriHonu]

The base application would be a database. This database would contain at least 3 tables of records.

1. A list of the customers you bill for the work completed. Name, address, phone, email, billing type, billing rate, etc.

2. A list of the road segments you work. The road segment could be as short as a driveway or as long as any continuous path you maintain for a jurisdiction. Each road segment record would include a description, distance, customer, operator and any other information you need to track. The table of these records are your "working area map".

3. Work Completed. Each record in this table would identify the road segment, date, time work started, time work ended, scope of work, operator, notes, etc.

I suspect the first two tables will be fairly stable and once entered would require few updates. The Work Completed table records what you do. The issue becomes how to best record this information.

Without GPS, it would be easy for the operator to quickly start a new record and select the Road Segment from a drop-down list. The database can automatically date/time stamp the record. You could also select from a drop-down: the road condition, type of work, etc. At the end of the Road Segment, click a Save Button to record the end time and save the record

The database can link the tables together. Work table to Road Segment and then Road Segment to Customer. So you could create lists of work by operator, road segment, customer, date or any other way you wanted filter and sort the records, even by the road segment that has not been worked for the longest time. You could even look at how fast each segment is requiring work.

The benefits of adding GPS Tracking to the database would be minimal. GPS Data Loggers are available. You turn them on and they record the Latitude and Longitude coordinates and the time. The problem is you now have to reconcile this huge list of LAT/LONG coordinates to a billable road segment. This will require a bunch of code. You would also have to import this data into the database. On the surface this a lot of overhead compared with the operator selecting a Road Segment from a drop-down list.

Other GPS options are GPS receivers that can be connected to a computer running in the cab. Most of the older handheld GPS receivers had data cables that allowed them to send their position data through the cable as NMEA data sentences. The National Marine Electronics Association (NMEA) defined a standard of how and what these units transmit. The GPS receiver continuously transmits a series of sentences. Each sentence starts with an identifier and is followed by a number of data elements. For example, a $GPGLL sentence is the current Latitude and Longitude coordinates, Time, and an Active code. This solution also requires the LAT/LONG coordinates to reconcile to a Road Segment.

I don't know the capabilities of the GPS in smart phones, however I suspect a good App programmer may be able to identify the road you are on and pass it to the database. You would still have to identify the road segment.

The issue with GPS is it identifies a point in space. That point has to be matched to a datum that is understood by the user, ie the nearest road, building, water course, jurisdiction, farm, etc. GPS is not a map, GPS identifies a position that can be identified on a map. For your requirements, it is not just the location, it is who you bill for work at that location.

A mapping interface could be accomplished to display what needs to be done or what has been done. I suspect this is in addition to the above functionality.

 

[rsherril]

Thinking out loud here....
The mapping interface could give a visual representation of work done by hour, day, week, month and so on. Geographic Information Systems, GIS, can provide a base map, then the programmer could add information layers as described by TriHonu on to that as needed.

 

[Fatgraderman]

The base application would be a database. This database would contain at least 3 tables of records.

1. A list of the customers you bill for the work completed. Name, address, phone, email, billing type, billing rate, etc.

2. A list of the road segments you work. The road segment could be as short as a driveway or as long as any continuous path you maintain for a jurisdiction. Each road segment record would include a description, distance, customer, operator and any other information you need to track. The table of these records are your "working area map".

3. Work Completed. Each record in this table would identify the road segment, date, time work started, time work ended, scope of work, operator, notes, etc.

I suspect the first two tables will be fairly stable and once entered would require few updates. The Work Completed table records what you do. The issue becomes how to best record this information.

Without GPS, it would be easy for the operator to quickly start a new record and select the Road Segment from a drop-down list. The database can automatically date/time stamp the record. You could also select from a drop-down: the road condition, type of work, etc. At the end of the Road Segment, click a Save Button to record the end time and save the record

The database can link the tables together. Work table to Road Segment and then Road Segment to Customer. So you could create lists of work by operator, road segment, customer, date or any other way you wanted filter and sort the records, even by the road segment that has not been worked for the longest time. You could even look at how fast each segment is requiring work.

The benefits of adding GPS Tracking to the database would be minimal. GPS Data Loggers are available. You turn them on and they record the Latitude and Longitude coordinates and the time. The problem is you now have to reconcile this huge list of LAT/LONG coordinates to a billable road segment. This will require a bunch of code. You would also have to import this data into the database. On the surface this a lot of overhead compared with the operator selecting a Road Segment from a drop-down list.

Other GPS options are GPS receivers that can be connected to a computer running in the cab. Most of the older handheld GPS receivers had data cables that allowed them to send their position data through the cable as NMEA data sentences. The National Marine Electronics Association (NMEA) defined a standard of how and what these units transmit. The GPS receiver continuously transmits a series of sentences. Each sentence starts with an identifier and is followed by a number of data elements. For example, a $GPGLL sentence is the current Latitude and Longitude coordinates, Time, and an Active code. This solution also requires the LAT/LONG coordinates to reconcile to a Road Segment.

I don't know the capabilities of the GPS in smart phones, however I suspect a good App programmer may be able to identify the road you are on and pass it to the database. You would still have to identify the road segment.

The issue with GPS is it identifies a point in space. That point has to be matched to a datum that is understood by the user, ie the nearest road, building, water course, jurisdiction, farm, etc. GPS is not a map, GPS identifies a position that can be identified on a map. For your requirements, it is not just the location, it is who you bill for work at that location.

A mapping interface could be accomplished to display what needs to be done or what has been done. I suspect this is in addition to the above functionality.

Thinking out loud here....
The mapping interface could give a visual representation of work done by hour, day, week, month and so on. Geographic Information Systems, GIS, can provide a base map, then the programmer could add information layers as described by TriHonu on to that as needed.

HMMMM....What they said^^^^^^^..........
What I heard....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4

And what this stuff all REALLY is....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1hEQbGRJ_Q

No wonder the people in the office far outnumber those of us that actually work. They have to make sense of this stuff!!!:deadhorse

 

[biggrader]

TriHonu

Just as a note, I am by no means smart enough to write a program myself. I would have to find a developer that would like to work for peanuts!!!

I stand by this post!!!!!
Great ideas and what I am looking for. You apparantly have more skills working with spreadsheets than I do so make it happen. The peanuts are on the way.

[I don't know the capabilities of the GPS in smart phones, however I suspect a good App programmer may be able to identify the road you are on and pass it to the database. You would still have to identify the road segment. ]

If a person identified the coordinates of the start and stop of a road segment, would a gps/time stamp identify where you are at. if you are within the paramaters that you entered for start/stop, the app would recognize that you are in this specific segment and start recording, Also when you left those parameters it would know when to stop recording.

 

[TriHonu]

If a person identified the coordinates of the start and stop of a road segment, would a gps/time stamp identify where you are at. if you are within the parameters that you entered for start/stop, the app would recognize that you are in this specific segment and start recording, Also when you left those parameters it would know when to stop recording.

In theory yes. However in the practical world each GPS receiver may record the point with slight variations of the LAT/LONG coordinates. You could deal with this mathematically or you would have to define the start of a road segment as an area rather than a point. This would allow for the reported point location to have some variation and you would check if the reported point is within the the defined area. This issue has to be addressed because the machine is moving and the GPS is reporting its position every x number of seconds. The next issue is the grader stops at the end of a road segment and stops to fix the approaches and transition at a paved surface. If this location is an intersection where you have a change in "road ownership", as you maneuver the grader, the GPS could be entering and exiting multiple road segments for short periods of time as you fix the end of the working road segment. Resolving what the GPS data records vs what the operator is actually doing would be difficult without operator input.

The value of the this type of application is not just recording that you were there. If that is all you want to accomplish, then a GPS data logger with a custom app to process all the points when you return to the office would fit the bill.

When you look at the overall process and add up the software, hardware, development and data processing costs you will have to justify the project costs with the value added to the company. I have been involved in some projects where the ROI wouldn't be fully realized for decades and the development costs were tens of millions of dollars.

Ultimately, projects are defined by the cost. It resolves to: "This is what we would like to have and we can spend this amount." The developer then counters with: "For that dollar amount I can build x% of what you want."

What you get is defined by how much you are willing to spend. Depending upon the goals of the business, this cost must result in providing higher quality service or must result in higher profits.

Having operators keep a paper log/map that is entered into a computer at the office may just be the most cost effective solution for the business.

Most business processes are self optimizing. People will follow a business process and will automatically figure out how to accomplish it the most effective way. To achieve significant improvement to an established process, you must totally abandon the existing process and devise an entirely new way of accomplishing the work. This usually costs a lot, but in the long run run is paid back many times in cost savings. However, there are may situations where automation could be applied to a solution but will not result in enough benefits to the company to cover the costs, ever...

 

[biggrader]

Very well said.
I have looked for and downloaded some gps logger apps and just cant seem to find one that works. Your comment on working intersections and transitions is a valid concern, and one that I have thought of, however some of the apps that i have tried, had a setting where you could change the interval of time stamp. I contacted our local county and they use spreadsheets to keep track of everything. So the operator spends 10 minutes at the end ( during) the day keeping track of everything. Then he(she) turns it into the secretary and she spends 20 minutes deciphering/entering into a spreadsheet. Multiply that by the number of counties/states in the US alone and I was just thinking that an app could eliminate much wasted time.

 

[TriHonu]

I like the concept of capturing and recording the work as it is completed. I am sure a custom application could be developed that would perform the required data capture.

The biggest issue is the cost of a custom app and hardware. I suspect that to cover the development costs you would need to spread the costs across a large number of those users.

I suspect that a smartphone with a built in GPS receiver would be the least expensive capture device. Finding a GPS App that can provide the GPS data to another application would be the ticket to getting this to work.

If there was good cell coverage in the working area, you could set up the system to post to the company database in near real-time. Nothing like the Boss being able to monitor your work from their office. They could pull up a map with a track of your progress and current location. Be careful what you wish for...:eek2

A cost analysis would be required to determine if the purchase and monthly costs are feasible with respect to their budget. From my experience, upfront costs are usually not the stumbling point. It is the unknown variable monthly maintenance fees that make the finance folks nervous.

I take from your comments that Townships contract to maintain roads that belong to them. So you have at least 3 layers of government that either need the information or get billed for road maintenance services.

Have you contacted State DOT and asked if they capture in cab data? It would be interesting to know what they are doing and whether their current system will meet their future requirements.

At the State level they would probably want to integrate the data into a Geographic Information System (GIS) as previously mentioned. Capturing all the requirements from Management, Admin and Operators would determine the true scope of this endeavor.

 

[TriHonu]

I took a look at the Android programming API.

On an Android phone, there are multiple ways to access the GPS data. If you have cell service, you can also perform a reverse search that will convert the LAT/LONG coordinates to an address. The API also allows you to set the time interval for LAT/LONG updates.

The Android phones also have a SQLite database installed as part of the operating system. So out of the box, it appears the Android phones have the necessary building blocks to construct the operator application.

 

[biggrader]

I suspect that a smartphone with a built in GPS receiver would be the least expensive capture device. Finding a GPS App that can provide the GPS data to another application would be the ticket to getting this to work.

If there was good cell coverage in the working area, you could set up the system to post to the company database in near real-time. Nothing like the Boss being able to monitor your work from their office. They could pull up a map with a track of your progress and current location. Be careful what you wish for...

That is what i was thinking also. Either a smartphone or Ipad( or equivalent). Locally speaking most 2 way radios in the area have capability to transmit location and many entities use( or can use) that technology to keep track of their assets. Kenwood radios will transmit location to a base radio that is hooked up to a computer ( windows application) and then show where all the units are at. As far as real time data for my application, I was just thinking that a person could record a day or two's work and then when they return to office just download to a computer.

I take from your comments that Townships contract to maintain roads that belong to them. So you have at least 3 layers of government that either need the information or get billed for road maintenance services.

In our local area, most townships and a few counties contract out their road maintenance service and are an independent LGA. How townships with adjoining miles work out who pays for them are simply an agreement between the two townships. Like I said earlier, a couple of them just share the annual expenses... others will maintain the roads for 2 yrs and then the other township will maintain them for 2 yrs. There are a few townships and a higher percentage of counties that own their equipment but i see an application that this could fit also.

Have you contacted State DOT and asked if they capture in cab data? It would be interesting to know what they are doing and whether their current system will meet their future requirements.

I have not contacted the state yet. just in the infancy stages, but I do believe that they capture all the information.
There probably already is a program out there that does this but I havent been able to find anything searching the internet. I was hoping that a few more people who work for public entities would respond with what they are using.

 

[Fatgraderman]

I have a tough time following (this is over my head) but if you are incorporating a spreadsheet, could a <2% formula be used so when cleaning up aprons and intersections, you aren't triggering the other township involved? I'm guessing that it would all average out of time. The GPS in my county first used the Kenwood radio's in 2002. The latest ones they installed in my Grader don't. I'm pretty sure a signal is still sent over the repeater though.

 

[Silveroddo]

I have not contacted the state yet. just in the infancy stages, but I do believe that they capture all the information.
There probably already is a program out there that does this but I havent been able to find anything searching the internet. I was hoping that a few more people who work for public entities would respond with what they are using.

I'm just going to throw this out there, as far as I have observed municipalities at the state level are in the stone age of production and efficiency management. I'm not going to go real in depth on this but I will say that at the state level any information about maintenance production is gleaned from time sheets (if it is gleaned at all), despite having spent millions of dollars on in cab GPS and recording devices. GPS technology is limited to asset locating.

Strictly from a billing standpoint my spreadsheets have the following categories Date, road segment, start time, end time, (time calculation in hours) length of segment, miles graded per hour and a spot for comments

I write this information in while I'm in the machine and transfer it to the spreadsheet where all of the formulas do the work, if it was on a smart phone you could have a drop down menu for the road segments which could automatically input the length of the segment in the appropriate column to determine your production.
At the bottom of the spread sheet I have total hours, total miles, and average production

I've seen a municipality spend millions of dollars trying to utilize technology for the sake of technology and still have little or nothing to show for it at the end of the day, I feel this could be one of those areas.