• Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!

Anyone had cyclender head valve breakage on 963 cat?

dragracer5256

Active Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
36
Location
mo
i have 963 that keeps breaking valves just up from seat where stem starts. Guessing lean. Stem, keepers, spring, and guide all in tact. I HAVE REPLACED INJECTORS and shot exhaust with temp gun seing consistant temps on all cyclenders. Not breaking same cyclender either. Wondering if anyone else has been through this? Thanks
 

dragracer5256

Active Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
36
Location
mo
Its a 1994 963 A model. This time it broke an intake valve, wow. I think it was an aftermarket part, mabye the problem huh.
 

CAT793

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
141
Location
australia
Valve Quality, Spring Seat Pressure, Lift, Clearance, Timing, Overspeeds, Balance, Exhaust Temperature, Induction restrictions, Fuel Pressure, Injector and Fuel Quality.........just to help with a few suggestions?
 

Cmark

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Messages
3,178
Location
Australia
That'll be a 3306. Have you had the head skimmed? If the head is skimmed beyond spec and/or the valve seats are be cut too deep and you'll lose valve spring tension.
 

Cat Wrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
121
Location
Missouri
That is a 3304 D.I. engine.
Did you recently replace the head or have some head work done? From what limited information you have given it sounds like piston to valve clearance problem possibly valves that are adjusted wrong.
Where at in Missouri are you located?
Are you doing the work yourself?
I have built many 3304's in 963's and many other machines. If you would like I could PM you my phone number and discuss it with you.
 

RKO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2007
Messages
181
Location
NE.
That'll be a 3306. Have you had the head skimmed? If the head is skimmed beyond spec and/or the valve seats are be cut too deep and you'll lose valve spring tension.

It should have a 3304 like Cat wrench said. He is pretty on with what could be wrong. A valve cut to deep in the head will usually not break, they will bend when the head hits them from floating.
I have seen some non cat valves break like you said and a few Cat valves break with high hours on them. I usually replace valves just to be safe when I overhaul an engine.
 

dragracer5256

Active Member
Joined
May 18, 2010
Messages
36
Location
mo
more info

The head has been off before but not sure if was surfaced. Valves may have been a little tight "mabye couple thou". How much piston to valve clearance is acceptable? I build drag race engines and we accept .080 piston to valve at 8000rpm so I would think these things spinning, what, about 2500rpm, .040 would work.Someone explain to me how valve being up in head too much could cause breakage? I dont get that one, I could see less spring pressure and less compression but breaking a valve? We are in St Charles MO. Thanks for help.
 

Cat Wrench

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
121
Location
Missouri
The head has been off before but not sure if was surfaced. Valves may have been a little tight "mabye couple thou". How much piston to valve clearance is acceptable? I build drag race engines and we accept .080 piston to valve at 8000rpm so I would think these things spinning, what, about 2500rpm, .040 would work.Someone explain to me how valve being up in head too much could cause breakage? I dont get that one, I could see less spring pressure and less compression but breaking a valve? We are in St Charles MO. Thanks for help.

I would guess that the valve adjustment procedure has not been followed accurately from the limited information you have given us.

From the description that you gave about where you are seeing the valves break would indicate piston to valve collision.

If the valves were to "deep" in the head the valve geometry could be wrong (causing the rocker to push the valve to far "sideways")but I seriously doubt that is the problem if a reputable machine shop did the head work. Plus the break in the valve would be around where the retainer/locks are on the stem above the valve guide rather than under it as you desrcibe.

A 3300 series engine has more than adequate valve to piston "clearance" inside of normal parameters. I have never seen an issue there except in a rare instance of utter ignorance on the part of the "mechanic" where the pistons were not installed in their proper position. Those pistons have valve reliefs cut into the top in the front and on the exhaust side of the engine.

The acceptable adjustment on a 3300 series engine is .015 intake, .025 exhaust with a tolerance of +/- .003 so you really have to try to screw that up.

Your problem should be very obvious to an experienced diesel/caterpillar engine tech.
 
Last edited:

bolt thrower

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2007
Messages
105
Location
Flagstaff AZ
Occupation
Tractor Fixer
This is actually a pretty common high hour failure, in my experience usually on exhaust valves.On alot of Cat's valves the stem and head are actually made of two different pieces of metal that are welded together, and they usually break near the weld. Try sticking a magnet to a valve; it will stick to the stem, but not the head. Cat says that excessive valve clearance can cause this failure, because at high rpm the slack causes the momentum of the rocker arms to "throw" the valves open and slam shut, causing metal fatigue and breakage. Of course it takes a long time for this to happen, IE high hour failure. If an engine rebuilder puts old valves in a rebuilt engine, the failure could be percieved as a low hour failure, but its not. Like RKO says, new valves should always be put in a rebuilt diesel. Corrosive pitting in the fillet area is also a common cause for this failure, but it is exclusive to exhaust valves. If the valves are non Cat made, they should be removed from the engine, and melted down to make tourist souvenirs, LOL, and real Cat valves installed.
 

tctractors

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,414
Location
Worc U.K.
Please check the Rocker arm pad that contacts the valve stem, also check the Valve part No, 330c valves are exactly the same to look at but are about 1/8" shorter in the stem to the 3304 Valves, the common fault I have had with Valve damage has been Air Filter blockages resulting in High Temps, I am not saying this is your problem at all, also it might be worth checking the Cam Timing ???.

tctractors
 
Top