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Any rumours/news on D12?
- Thread starter cr500
- Start date
Cat-385BL
Member
Greg,
I would imagine if Cat has a D12 in the werkz, it will more then likely be a high sprocket due to the beating the sprocket and drive connection take when a simple oval track, and then also to that extent, it aids those who maintains the operation of the machine, easily accessable to work on with the high track. So, I don't see the D12 if made, being a oval track type dozer.
I would imagine if Cat has a D12 in the werkz, it will more then likely be a high sprocket due to the beating the sprocket and drive connection take when a simple oval track, and then also to that extent, it aids those who maintains the operation of the machine, easily accessable to work on with the high track. So, I don't see the D12 if made, being a oval track type dozer.
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Yes and no on the oval drive. On smaller machines, oval makes more sense...less expensive to manufacture, not as much of an advantage performance wise, etc. On larger tractors, elevated sprocket works out better. Cat has gone back to oval track for the smaller machines, but said they are sticking with the elevated sprocket on the larger,,,I think D8 and bigger, but I don't remember for sure.
Brian
Brian
biggixxerjim
Senior Member
Im pretty sure that D7E is a high drive.... they have that new D6K with the oval track that is supposed to be a JD 700 fighter. On a machine such as a high production finish dozer like these two, it makes sence to use an oval track.... most of the reasons being lower center of gravity and lighter overall weight of the machine.
But get into some heavy cuts or rough ground.... the high track will shine. My last company had a D5M PAT N/G with a brand new Cat undercarriage on it, and it ate up rock and shale. Just as long as nothing was too big......
But get into some heavy cuts or rough ground.... the high track will shine. My last company had a D5M PAT N/G with a brand new Cat undercarriage on it, and it ate up rock and shale. Just as long as nothing was too big......
Attachments
You may not have developed a taste for the high drive Greg but i am sure you have not sampled working on the low drives either!! From a fitters point it is so superior it is not funny and with the success that design has enjoyed there is no question of how right it is, just take the D11R for example, it is scary how right that tractor is. But as i say to a Komatsu fan in a light hearted way, i am so glad we have such a good number 2, helps make number 1 better!
Flame away boys!!!
Flame away boys!!!
EDOC
Member
d5c problems
we have a d5c hydrostat series III. We finished a job loaded the dozer then unloaded dozer at shop. started tracking to pressure wash got about 10 yards from trailer and the dozer just quit tracking like some sort of switch was turned off. We have checked pressure at pumps 500 psi at idle 5000 psi at open throttle forward and reverse. When we engage tracks you can hear the pumps pressure up but there is no action at the tracks. Tried to pull dozer and both tracks just slid. Had to remove both axles in order to get dozer to move. Checked final drives drained oil no metal and gears look good.
any suggestions are there any sylonoids or switches that could be causing this
we have a d5c hydrostat series III. We finished a job loaded the dozer then unloaded dozer at shop. started tracking to pressure wash got about 10 yards from trailer and the dozer just quit tracking like some sort of switch was turned off. We have checked pressure at pumps 500 psi at idle 5000 psi at open throttle forward and reverse. When we engage tracks you can hear the pumps pressure up but there is no action at the tracks. Tried to pull dozer and both tracks just slid. Had to remove both axles in order to get dozer to move. Checked final drives drained oil no metal and gears look good.
any suggestions are there any sylonoids or switches that could be causing this
Haul-Pak
Well-Known Member
Cannot be sure as they made a few different D5C III.
Tow Valve: This Valve allow's you to Pump the brake's off if a major component fail's and render's the machine Imobile.
This Is also Used to test the integrity of the brake's at Full power test.
If this lever has shifted then the Pump's will still stroke and send oil to the Motor's but the machine will not move.
Lever under the floor pan.
EDOC
Member
Thanks for reply. this valve is open and has no pressure on it an any time
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Won't go?
Hi, Edoc.
I don't know if that machine has an automatic brake controlled by the trans lever as the hy-stat track loaders do and, if so, whether the automatic brake in that machine is manually applied or electronic. See if you can tow it with the tracks free by having the engine running and the trans control lever slightly engaged to - hopefully - release the brake. If the tracks are still locked solid, your brake is not releasing.
Note: On most of these hy-stat machines that I have had anything to do with, the trans control lever has to be out of the neutral position with the engine running to release the brake.
Hope this helps.
Hi, Edoc.
I don't know if that machine has an automatic brake controlled by the trans lever as the hy-stat track loaders do and, if so, whether the automatic brake in that machine is manually applied or electronic. See if you can tow it with the tracks free by having the engine running and the trans control lever slightly engaged to - hopefully - release the brake. If the tracks are still locked solid, your brake is not releasing.
Note: On most of these hy-stat machines that I have had anything to do with, the trans control lever has to be out of the neutral position with the engine running to release the brake.
Hope this helps.
Had issues with my D-3 C ,series 3 this summer. The lever that you pull up on with your left hand had a switch mounted on the release below the throttle area. Had Cat service tech come out to verify problem, replaced switch, problem solved. Tractor would stall the engine as you were moving and come to a rapid stop.
EddieWalker
Well-Known Member
In the article that I read about the D7E, the reason for not using the high track was the need for as much power as possible from the electric drive motors. The high drive loses too much power and Cat is considering eliminating it.
Eddie
Eddie
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Hi-drive.
Hi, EddieWalker.
The blurb that Cat put out to explain why the D7E had oval tracks said that they were planning on keeping the high sprocket design for the bigger tractors, D8 and up, which have the bottom rollers and idlers on bogies and deleting it from the smaller end of the range. The reason is that there is not a lot of gain from the high sprocket system unless you have the bottom rollers and idlers on bogies. Then you get improved ride and better traction, both pretty fair pluses in my book.
Hi, EddieWalker.
The blurb that Cat put out to explain why the D7E had oval tracks said that they were planning on keeping the high sprocket design for the bigger tractors, D8 and up, which have the bottom rollers and idlers on bogies and deleting it from the smaller end of the range. The reason is that there is not a lot of gain from the high sprocket system unless you have the bottom rollers and idlers on bogies. Then you get improved ride and better traction, both pretty fair pluses in my book.
Spanrz
Member
Jeez, I heard this D12 rumour years and years ago.... No market for it, (in AUs anyway) specifically not at the current moment, with economic downturn.
The amount of packaging/splitting the machine up for each job would be horrendous.
I would assume it to be around the 130 t range? As D11R CD is around the 110 t
If the D12 was ever made, it would be matched for the large excavators (the old 5130's - 5230's etc etc)
But it would only be a mine spec machine. Maybe it would be too heavy for a lot of applications, limiting it to certain mines.
Undercarriage concerns would be paramount, cost of it as well.
But the new D7E is cutting edge. It's a AC (not DC) drive machine. I just don't know where the electrics will cut it into the market.
Give them to us Aussie's, will give it the best test yet. If we can't break it, no one can.
I can see a lot of electrical / fire related accidents with these machines. AC with thick cables that wear out in harsh conditions, with leaking oils, yep, reciepe for disaster.
The new System One undercarriage is basically run to destruction, then replace, instead of pin / bush turns.
The problem though with system one, is that you have to dismantle/assemble 2 sections at a time (box section), not 1 at a time - like the old system
Will be interesting in about a year. There is no service info on them yet, either.
The amount of packaging/splitting the machine up for each job would be horrendous.
I would assume it to be around the 130 t range? As D11R CD is around the 110 t
If the D12 was ever made, it would be matched for the large excavators (the old 5130's - 5230's etc etc)
But it would only be a mine spec machine. Maybe it would be too heavy for a lot of applications, limiting it to certain mines.
Undercarriage concerns would be paramount, cost of it as well.
But the new D7E is cutting edge. It's a AC (not DC) drive machine. I just don't know where the electrics will cut it into the market.
Give them to us Aussie's, will give it the best test yet. If we can't break it, no one can.
I can see a lot of electrical / fire related accidents with these machines. AC with thick cables that wear out in harsh conditions, with leaking oils, yep, reciepe for disaster.
The new System One undercarriage is basically run to destruction, then replace, instead of pin / bush turns.
The problem though with system one, is that you have to dismantle/assemble 2 sections at a time (box section), not 1 at a time - like the old system
Will be interesting in about a year. There is no service info on them yet, either.
In my experience CAT have made electrical Harness cheap as chips to encourage customers to replace them at regular intervals. So if the PCR is 8000hr for generators and motors and cables and harnesses are replaced at the same repair I don't see longevity being a problem. As an example a transmission in a 793C CAT Dumpy is worth approx. $130000 new and run to around 18000 hrs but it is std practice to replace the harness at a cost of $300. I have trouble believing they could make a harness full of copper for that not alone ship it from the USA to OZ!
Deas Plant
Senior Member
Electrical, etc.?????????
Hi, Spanrz.
I'd be more than a litle surprised if Cat hasn't done their homework and pretty much eliminated any chance of electrical fires from their drive system. They would realise that this is a make-or-break for them, at least as far as electrical drive dozers go and I reckon they'll get most of the bugs out of it before they release it.
To me, this innovation is on a par with the high sprocket drive on the first D10's. It's not the FIRST time that it has been done so the thing is to do it BETTER than anybody else.
If there is to be a bigger dozer from Cat, I would reckon it would be in a modular format so that it is easily stripped and re-assembled, similar to what Buster Peterson did with the siamese D8's. They could be stripped or re-assembled in very quick time by unskilled people with minimal tools and equipment. I won't be too surprised if there is a bigger dozer from Cat in the future. I think it's probably more a case of 'when' rather than 'will there be'. The D11's have proven to be among the cheapest ways to strip overburden in the right situation so it stands to reason that a bigger dozer would do it better.
I can't figure why it would be matched to excavators that Cat hasn't produced in 10-15 years or more. It would make more sense to match their dump trucks to current excavator/face shovel models, which I would imgine would be one of their main design criteria. So why wouldn't a bigger dozer be matched to tasks that their current biggest dozer has excelled at, stripping overburden and restoration?
Just my 0.02.
Hi, Spanrz.
I'd be more than a litle surprised if Cat hasn't done their homework and pretty much eliminated any chance of electrical fires from their drive system. They would realise that this is a make-or-break for them, at least as far as electrical drive dozers go and I reckon they'll get most of the bugs out of it before they release it.
To me, this innovation is on a par with the high sprocket drive on the first D10's. It's not the FIRST time that it has been done so the thing is to do it BETTER than anybody else.
If there is to be a bigger dozer from Cat, I would reckon it would be in a modular format so that it is easily stripped and re-assembled, similar to what Buster Peterson did with the siamese D8's. They could be stripped or re-assembled in very quick time by unskilled people with minimal tools and equipment. I won't be too surprised if there is a bigger dozer from Cat in the future. I think it's probably more a case of 'when' rather than 'will there be'. The D11's have proven to be among the cheapest ways to strip overburden in the right situation so it stands to reason that a bigger dozer would do it better.
I can't figure why it would be matched to excavators that Cat hasn't produced in 10-15 years or more. It would make more sense to match their dump trucks to current excavator/face shovel models, which I would imgine would be one of their main design criteria. So why wouldn't a bigger dozer be matched to tasks that their current biggest dozer has excelled at, stripping overburden and restoration?
Just my 0.02.
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I too have heard the stories of D12 drawings and would personally be very surprised if they ever did it (as cool as it may be). D11R cost an absolute BOMB to maintain (more than any other machine) and what would a D12 do that 2x D11R could not achieve for far more convenience!