Anti-Seize compound usage?

[cfherrman]

Just remember anti seize has sand in it

I use it on tires as well

 

[Welder Dave]

I got new tires not too long ago and asked about coming back for a retorque. No need, the new procedure is to mount the wheels then back up hard and apply the brakes then check/retorque the lug nuts.

 

[Norcal wrench530]

A couple older John Deere mechanics swore to NEVER USE ANTISIEZE EVER on anything. "Just use a good penetrating oil during assembly". Insert. Me. The next season having to torch off every bearing they installed on every combine shaft they touched on a 9660 CTS rice combine... So, yeah I use the stuff... and a few light taps with a punch and hammer or a trusty ol' bearing splitter they come right off. It sure is nice being the next guy after you did the repair yourself before! I carry multiple types of anti seize on my shop truck depending on what i'm assembling. I have found that the "Thread Magic" stick anti seize works awesome on sparkplugs.

I did have an uncle that used to rebuild electric motors and told me never use it on those bearings, something about the electrical current damn near welds itself together, but i've never verified that statement.

 

[dgb]

Did not know there were different kinds, only used the silver stuff that seems to travel all over on it's own sometimes from your hands to tools and what you don't want it on. |-= bought a used trailer one time and after a year or so decided one day to pull the wheels and check stuff,, would not have been able on the road to change a flat. Lubed .

 

[Norcal wrench530]

Oh the good old silver gremlin, works good under door handles on your buddys truck, just like a heavy duty zip tie on their driveshaft.. hahah. best thing i've been taught on most stainless to stainless connections in the fertilizer world is to use a dab of clear silicone on the thread instead of anti seize. No galling the threads. don't know why or how but it works

 

[caseloader]

I never seize everything and loctite should be banned from the planet! -- IF ya ever tried to take out a bolt that had that crap put on it you would know why!!!!

 

[cfherrman]

Installing with penetration fluid is about the reverse of using anti seize, about the only thing worse would be using brake fluid.

 

[Shimmy1]

loctite should be banned from the planet! -- IF ya ever tried to take out a bolt that had that crap put on it you would know why!!!!

Red, yes. Blue, not so much. Did the undercarriage on my 1150 a few years ago. Blue loctite on mostly all the fasteners. Only ones that were trouble were the ones that didn't have it. All roller bolts spun out with the 1/2" Milwaukee.

I'm a believer in the blue loctite in those applications.

 

[1693TA]

Red, yes. Blue, not so much. Did the undercarriage on my 1150 a few years ago. Blue loctite on mostly all the fasteners. Only ones that were trouble were the ones that didn't have it. All roller bolts spun out with the 1/2" Milwaukee.

I'm a believer in the blue loctite in those applications.

The red Loctite has it's place and it states in the literature it will require heat to loosen the parts. Trouble is latest generations have as much trouble reading and comprehending english, as they do speaking chinese, so don't bother with the attempt and the product is blamed when it is inappropriately used in an application. The blue, and the green are the most versatile of the products for general usage.

 

[Norcal wrench530]

Yep says right on the red bottle, the green works well as so does the bearing retaining compound for loose races. Steering fasteners and brake hardware get the blue same with smaller driveshaft hardware.

 

[OzDozer]

I've had numerous other well-qualified and highly experienced people tell me that Silastic (clear silicone) works best for them as an anti-seize product. Never tried it myself, but I believe what they tell me.

I use the nickel anti-seize as it withstands heat well, and still protects from corrosion even when operating in salty ground, of which there's plenty where I live.

 

[Swetz]

Red, yes. Blue, not so much.

Last summer I attended a Permatex seminar. I learned that for high vibration applications the orange Permatex is the ticket. It has the same strength as the blue, but should it see shock, it is still resists unthreading. Once the blue cracks loose, it does not resist unthreading. I used it for te first time recently on flywheel bolts.

 

[1693TA]

I have always used the blue on flywheel retention fasteners since losing a flywheel and crankshaft both on the VW bug that was my family car at the time when that large flywheel retaining nut backed off.

That cost money I didn't have in those days to replace parts. I've not forgotten that painful lesson.

 

[Welder Dave]

According to Nord Lock Loctite is terrible for vibration. It's likely one of those tests where they can skew the results to fit their agenda.

 

[OzDozer]

I can tell you this much - the lower grade anaerobic threadlockers may have reduced threadlocking abilities - but high grade Loctite threadlockers will never let a thread go, you need heat to make them release.
I've seen guys using 6' cheater pipes trying to unscrew big transmission yoke nuts locked on with high grade threadlocker, and they couldn't budge them.
They'll resist all the massive vibration a badly out-of-balance drive shaft can throw at them.

 

[Welder Dave]

I agree. Red Loctite is specified on some really critical bolts. I used Nord Lock washers on the wheel adaptors I had made for the grader for a couple reasons. The outside nuts aren't accessible and I didn't want any chance of them coming loose and if they did ever have to come off wouldn't require heat. I didn't think blue Loctite would be sufficient. The orange Loctite maybe?? The 1" bolts that actually hold the wheels on are only 1 1/2" long. They couldn't protrude much past the thickness of the adaptors (3/4"). Doing some reading it's generally better to use longer bolts with thick spacers than short bolts. I saw this on some JD tractors and combines at a dealership. In an effort to save having to have 40 thick spacers made up I went with the Nord Lock washers instead. Using Loctite on the 1" wheel bolts would require the red stuff. Then if I had to remove a wheel would require heat and a re-application of Loctite. With the Nord Locks I don't have to worry about vibration or torque on the wheels causing the bolts to come loose. Having run the grader for several hours I realized how easily the wheels can spin so I think it was a good idea to go with the Nord Lock washers. Something I don't have to worry about.

 

[kshansen]

Might be a little off-topic but longer bolts with spacers can be very good and even essential in many applications! The thing to keep in mind is that in many applications(if not all) what helps keep things fastened securely is the spring effect of a bolt stretching as it is tightened. This is where longer bolts can be very beneficial.

Just think of a coil spring that is only 1 inch long compared to one 3 inches long. The three inch bolt would have to stretch three times as much as the one inch bolt before either exceed their elastic limits.

One example I know of is the exhaust manifold studs on a 3400 Cat. Ones I thinking of are only 3/8 inch studs going through about a 1/2 inch thick flange. Those studs are something around 3 inches long. If you tried replacing the studs and spacers with say 1 inch bolts I would be surprised if you didn't have them breaking in a short amount of time.

One problem I could see would be using longer bolts but ones with only a minimum amount of threads as that would put the majority of the stretching right where the threads start. One reason in some cases they use bolts with reduced shanks to allow them to stretch over a longer distance. You can see that theory being used in places like say rod bolts on many engines for one.

 

[Tyler d4c]

Might be a little off-topic but longer bolts with spacers can be very good and even essential in many applications! The thing to keep in mind is that in many applications(if not all) what helps keep things fastened securely is the spring effect of a bolt stretching as it is tightened. This is where longer bolts can be very beneficial.

Just think of a coil spring that is only 1 inch long compared to one 3 inches long. The three inch bolt would have to stretch three times as much as the one inch bolt before either exceed their elastic limits.

One example I know of is the exhaust manifold studs on a 3400 Cat. Ones I thinking of are only 3/8 inch studs going through about a 1/2 inch thick flange. Those studs are something around 3 inches long. If you tried replacing the studs and spacers with say 1 inch bolts I would be surprised if you didn't have them breaking in a short amount of time.

One problem I could see would be using longer bolts but ones with only a minimum amount of threads as that would put the majority of the stretching right where the threads start. One reason in some cases they use bolts with reduced shanks to allow them to stretch over a longer distance. You can see that theory being used in places like say rod bolts on many engines for one.

Those 3406 manifold bolts seem to need all they help they can always seems a few are broken

 

[Welder Dave]

Might be a little off-topic but longer bolts with spacers can be very good and even essential in many applications! The thing to keep in mind is that in many applications(if not all) what helps keep things fastened securely is the spring effect of a bolt stretching as it is tightened. This is where longer bolts can be very beneficial.

Just think of a coil spring that is only 1 inch long compared to one 3 inches long. The three inch bolt would have to stretch three times as much as the one inch bolt before either exceed their elastic limits.

One example I know of is the exhaust manifold studs on a 3400 Cat. Ones I thinking of are only 3/8 inch studs going through about a 1/2 inch thick flange. Those studs are something around 3 inches long. If you tried replacing the studs and spacers with say 1 inch bolts I would be surprised if you didn't have them breaking in a short amount of time.

One problem I could see would be using longer bolts but ones with only a minimum amount of threads as that would put the majority of the stretching right where the threads start. One reason in some cases they use bolts with reduced shanks to allow them to stretch over a longer distance. You can see that theory being used in places like say rod bolts on many engines for one.

That's another reason I used the Nord Lock washers. Because the bolts were very short I figured they wouldn't have the built in torque/twist a longer shank bolt would have and could come loose easier. They're working great so far, knock on wood.

 

[cfherrman]

Bolt stretch is the best fastener locking mechanism, my brother runs the match and designs a spacer long enough typically