Alright scraper hands which way were you taught?

[BrianHay]

I never let off on ether throttle when I'm in the lead. I hesitate releasing the transmission hold for not much more than a second after my mahine is wanting to grab third. If my machine is ready to shift so is my partners. He should already have taken his tranny hold off and it only takes a second after he grabs third for his bail to lift off.

 

[mudober]

Front don't let up..I do like to turn out instead of bumping front man to let em know i'm unhooked

 

[Gavin84w]

My theory is the rear scraper is like the push Cat and should be controlling things once hooked up, sure he has to follow into the cut the lead guy but that is where he takes over, the hook up and disconnect are all his to control and the lead scraper should be consistent with throttle position (100%) and cutting depth then his timing when to let go of the trans hold based on the rear scraper turning out to indicate disconnection.

What are everyones thoughts on the bowl position of the rear scraper during the push loading portion? i see a lot of guys will have it a good foot + off the ground and beetween taking the slack out and lowering the bowl to begin his cut the pair can travel a long ways. My way of thinking would be to have it almost skimming the ground when in consistent material but another thing i have considered is the position of the push pad is possibly in a spot that should the ground be a little rugged and you do not have the pushpad in the meat of the front scrapers r send it may have a tendency to slide off as the nose of any scraper rears up when you have the bowl low?

Sound feasible?

 

[AustinM]

Gavin84w,
I like to have the guy in the rear carry his bowl low so that he picks up where you left off. Ran with a guy a while back that carried it high and as soon as I picked up, I would turn around and watch him get the slack out and then he would turn around and bury his can. Would load like this for a while, working his can and I could feel that near the halfway point of loading his scraper, he would start to pick up and as we traveled a little ways, would bury it again to finish it off and then pull up. Was a little annoying because the momentum was changing and sometimes it was hard to tell if he was really pulling out all the way or not. I'd be thinking, "okay he's done" and get ready to shift out of second, then my machine would bog down again on a hard pull as he put 'er back in the ground. Not a crisis by any means, just a little frustrated.

And as we unhooked and turned to go down the haul road, I could look back and see exactly where both scrapers loaded. If it's done smoothly you should not be able to tell who loaded where. So, my opinion in answer to your question, carry it low and barely skim the ground when pushing lead scraper.

 

[Vantage_TeS]

If my machine is ready to shift so is my partners.

That's a good way to drag someone to the fill and have them be very unhappy with you. No two machines are ever perfectly matched, especially when you are mix and matching series (G push pulling with E for example). That and the rear guy usually gets a larger load (front guys job is to make sure he gets a load quick to ensure the back guy still has enough cut left, plus the added weight aids in traction when he's pulling) so it takes much longer to pick up speed. The approved method is always wait for the nod of the rear guy turning out. That being said if you are always working with the same guy/machine you can have it timed pretty good, but you always get that one bad unhook if you start guessing.

Back on topic: lead runs full throttle second gear from when he is tagged until rear unhooks after loading. Exception: slopes or you start spinning tires. Rear guy should ALWAYS have slight sideways pressure on that bale just in case. I like to steer right as I have a good view of the left side of the bale however if you're near and edge or on a slope you can steer in the direction you want to keep his rear end up. It's your job to keep the back end of the lead from falling off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw6s1r4qp80

 

[vapor300]

I agree with everything advatges said 100%, the back scraper is usually always loaded heavier then the lead guy, if hes not then you have bad scraper hands. I ran with the same guy for 5 years, and we got good enuff that i knew when to throw it in high gear and take off, but running with someone new id always wait for him to shake his nose

 

[BrianHay]

That's a good way to drag someone to the fill and have them be very unhappy with you. No two machines are ever perfectly matched

No two machines are that far mismatched, even if one is loaded and one is empty. If both machines are wide open, top speed in second gear they are both ready to shift. If your partner misses his cue, does not unhook in time and you drag him all the way to the fill he should mad at you. If you can't tell that you partner never unhooked, you are ether 100% green, not paying attention or need to make a career change because Scrapers are not for you.

 

[vapor300]

Take a 27F and a 27E series 1 and have the F empty and the E loaded and there is a very serious mismatch there!!!

Nice vid vantages, but why are the 57's stopping to tag up?

 

[BrianHay]

I never said there was no mismatch. I said no two are that far mismatched. Your machine is ready to shift before your engine RMP's are maxed out. So even if one is maxed and the other is not quite there yet they are both still ready to shift. And the second the rear machine grabs third, no matter if it is the slower or faster machine, the bail will lift and you are good to go.

 

[vapor300]

if both machines shift at the same time the bail will proably not have time to lift off!

 

[BrianHay]

Read my original post on it again. Hesitate for a second before turning off the tranny hold. Both machines do not shift at the same time.

 

[Vantage_TeS]

No two machines are that far mismatched, even if one is loaded and one is empty. If both machines are wide open, top speed in second gear they are both ready to shift. If your partner misses his cue, does not unhook in time and you drag him all the way to the fill he should mad at you. If you can't tell that you partner never unhooked, you are ether 100% green, not paying attention or need to make a career change because Scrapers are not for you.

You obviously haven't had to push pull with unit 247 at night in the pits. Fog so thick you're luck to see your bale, and that giant heap of a 657 was taking a good 17-19 seconds to unhook after he picked up. When your cut ends at the top of a 80% grade ramp down to the fill you better hope your partners off or it's going to be a wild ride around that corner! Like I said you can get away with it for a while, but sooner or later someone's gonna think the guys off when he isn't. Wait for the nod, then upshift.

 

[BrianHay]

Well in the roughly 20 years (most of the winters too) I have moved dirt I have operated my fair share of P.O.S machines and in some crazy places too. But I thought we were talking about machines that are running properly and in normal conditions. Obviously you adjust if a machine is not running properly or you are in extreme conditions.

 

[AustinM]

Well said Brian. You don't do stuff like that when conditions don't allow it.

 

[sprknranger]

I agree with Brian, it's pretty easy to know when your partner has lifted, and any scraper operator who doesn't look back often at what's happening then they shouldn't be anywhere near heavy equipment. A decent operator will not pull his partner to the fill.

 

[CAT D7 man]

Guys, I hope that you'll accept my apology for bumping the topic a bit, but I'm still not entitled to start threads. My question is directly related to 'which way were you taught' though. When I look at the hundreds of scraper pictures on another web site, I see everyone loading with their aprons running with a lot of ground clearance. However, if you look at pictures on CAT scraper brochures, the aprons are generally pushing dirt. That is how I was taught also (about 45 years ago) and still do it today. But, I don't work for big spreads like most of you do. I'd sure like to see some discussion regarding apron position when loading. How were you taught?

 

[sprknranger]

Where I come from (a large outfit with 150+ scrapers) it's a cardinal sin to push dirt with your apron. I was always taught you have to open it up to let it in. But once dirt starts rolling out you need to lower the apron just on top of the pile to catch anything from falling out. If you did it right then your load will "boil" up real fast. Pushing the dirt with the apron is a good way to implode the apron, especially in hard or rocky material.

 

[BrianHay]

I do it the exact same way as sprknranger for the same reasons.

Adding a little to that. When dirt starts falling over the top of my apron I start slowly lifting it to keep it from spilling over. Then I float the apron once I am loaded. More often than not I don't have to close my apron all the way, the dirt will pack in good enough to stay in with the apron partly open. That makes it like my apron is that much taller and allows me to stack my load that much higher.

 

[CAT D7 man]

Looks like my teachings are somewhat out of date...maybe never correct in the first place. Now I didn't intend to indicate that I pushed any significant amount of dirt...just dragging the loose stuff. If you look at CAT brochures, you'll see what I mean...wish I could figure out how to post pictures...but am totally computer illiterate. 150+ scrapers? Man, I can't even imagine something like that! Must be quite a sight to watch ya'all work.

 

[BrianHay]

Wow CAT D7 man, after 45 years still learning with an open mind. That is outstanding and I sure hope when I become that seasoned in life I still maintain a similar attitude.

I would be willing to bet even if your way of doing it may be viewed as wrong to teach new operators, you have perfected it and it works well for you. Your apron is likely in very little danger if any as you know your machine, job and material well enough to keep it safe. And you probably stack it up as fast and tall as anyone.