1. Thank you for visiting HeavyEquipmentForums.com! Our objective is to provide industry professionals a place to gather to exchange questions, answers and ideas. We welcome you to register using the "Register" icon at the top of the page. We'd appreciate any help you can offer in spreading the word of our new site. The more members that join, the bigger resource for all to enjoy. Thank you!
  2. ALL NEW MEMBERS READ THIS FIRST!! Thank you for joining Heavy Equipment Forums! If you are new to forums we communicate with "Threads", please search our threads to see if your topic may have already been answered and if not then click "Post New Thread" in the appropriate forum. This will allow all of our members to see your question and give you the best chance to be answered. After you've made a number of posts you will graduate to Full Member status where you'll see a few more privileges. Following these guidelines will help make this the best resource for heavy equipment on the net. Thanks for joining us and I hope you enjoy your stay!!

Allis charmers HD 7G

Discussion in 'Track Loaders' started by Anthonyleuci, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. check

    check Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2012
    Messages:
    800
    Location:
    in the mail
    A thread like this tells more than hours of reading expensive manuals. Manuals tell you step one step two step three. A smart old wrench like DMiller can tell you what the main weaknesses are so you don't spend countless hours spinning your wheels.
    Service manuals are not written by people who are in a position to criticize the engineering department.
     
    DMiller and Tags like this.
  2. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,549
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Sad to say these machines were intended for ten to fifteen years of hard harsh work to be recycled as was considered in the Day. The engineers even as did not build them to be worked on built impressively long lasting mechanisms, reasonably cheap, well constructed and durable to the point I am still using a 45 year old machine.

    Minnpar has parts manuals from Allis on these and are downloadable. Service and operations manuals still exist as reproductions, if buy one of the machines the necessity to buy the manuals is already there before ever drop bucket to earth.

    I am steady in process on my old beater, rails should be off it in a month if I am lucky, then will have a set that with a pin/bushing turn should be good enough for personal use. Bought a set of six used links(still assembled) from Idaho(General Gear) for replacing the master links on these chains as the pin eyes are completely beaten open beyond further use. Having a machine shop turn or grind down the pins for master pins would also be in store as neither links nor pins and bushings really exist in any volume. Already e-mailed much of the initial nuances to see if even worth picking the machine up. Has to run, has to at least engage trans and brakes/clutches or is already a money pit with next to no bottom.
     
  3. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,549
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Allis had some pretty wild ideas on seals, support structures, engineering directions most other companies never went to. Final and Roller seals are Bladder type, fibrous Neoprene donuts with steel face rings supported with tension springs and designed to be maintained squeezed tight, bearing surfaces could be housing components running in pressurized oil baths, just all manner of oddities I never saw in other machines while still very simple.
     
    Anthonyleuci likes this.
  4. MCFooter

    MCFooter New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    BTT
    I'm considering picking up a Fiat Allis 7G-B Track Loader and while doing a little research found this thread. The unit I'm looking at is a 2nd owner (my BIL) and of course has been sitting for a few years. I'm told the only real issue it had when parked was fluid leaking from the weep hole in the Torq Converter at a rate of 3-5 Gallons per day or more depending on use. Anyone have any experience with this? Would the screens mentioned being clogged cause this?... Are there more screen than item 5 that I should be looking for? Any thoughts or Ideas would be appreciated... First Post... Thanks, Mike

    Item 5 Trans Screen.png
     
    DMiller likes this.
  5. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,549
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    Provided the weep hole is at the flywheel end then no the screens will not affect the leakage, That would be due to a front seal on the converter failed and will require removal of it to gain access to it.
    I am unaware as to the G-b converter to engine fastener positioning as mine was a straight G with the Allis 344 series 4cyl engine not the later six cyl where my own required engine removal to unbolt the converter.
     
  6. hector gemme

    hector gemme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Ste-Julie
    I am still have spair parts for 7G-7GB
     
  7. MCFooter

    MCFooter New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Thanks for the quick response ...I appreciate it.
    The current owner was thinking the issue was related with the ability to return the Fluid but sounds like you think it's more of a leak within. I have attached the Parts pics... Of the seals listed would you speculate it being Item 17?
    I assume a Torq Converter rebuild would be ideal if the parts are available but thinking is a pretty big project to get into for such an old machine. The bad thing is they put new clutches in it before it was parked. Do you think it's worth the trouble to fix or better at this point to spend and extra ~$50 a day on Fluid? Currently thinking maybe try to get it going and evaluate what else it may need.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. MCFooter

    MCFooter New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    What kind of parts do you have for the 7GB?... Torq. converter parts by chance?
     
  9. hector gemme

    hector gemme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Ste-Julie
    I should have some used tork parts but need parts number
     
  10. MCFooter

    MCFooter New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Don't know yet but ...
    (Item 17) 70664711 RING, Sealing Output Hub
    Might be a good place to start

    Thanks...
     
  11. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,549
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    All of my Spares went with Fat Allis when sold.
     
  12. hector gemme

    hector gemme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Ste-Julie
    HI I check tomorrow with my friend parts manual mine is missing some pages
     
    DMiller likes this.
  13. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Messages:
    6,535
    Location:
    Canada
    I think DMiller would be the best person to listen to regarding the machine you're looking at. He had his Fiat Allis for several years and pretty much knew it inside out and the kind of issues you may/will have to deal with. A lower purchase price doesn't not equate to better deal if you have to tear into it. You also need to consider what parts availability will be like in the future.
     
    Cat977 and DMiller like this.
  14. hector gemme

    hector gemme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Ste-Julie
    My friend is gone for weeken I try mondy to get the HD7GB manual .SORRY
     
    DMiller likes this.
  15. Welder Dave

    Welder Dave Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Messages:
    6,535
    Location:
    Canada
    No need to be sorry, you're trying to help him is what matters and you'll get back as soon as you can. By the way it's nice to see you back on the forum. I think you were off for quite awhile.
     
    Cat977 and DMiller like this.
  16. hector gemme

    hector gemme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Ste-Julie
    I try many time to comback but I was block and a couple week I try again and its working and am happy to be back.
    HECTOR
     
    Cat977, Welder Dave and DMiller like this.
  17. DMiller

    DMiller Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2010
    Messages:
    11,549
    Occupation:
    Almost Retired
    Location:
    Hermann, Missouri
    I would not risk buying a few odd pieces and drag the converter out to not go thru the entire unit. Will be disturbing seals and sealing points as disassemble to get to a leak point only to return to service and find you were wrong or added a second leak point. This machine is over 40 years old, no telling what kind of patch work or any work on the converter has occurred. On the Older style as I had the converter housing did not run pressurized nor with a full housing, was a feed and bleed system that during shut down periods was allowed to drain back to main housing of trans. Any leak from the converter was either stopped up drain or vent or just failed seals.

    Should be a Borg Warner pattern and may be able to get seals thru a BW repair service or upgrade parts internally if damaged to some other style. Drive hub and output housing will be AC Specific, the guts likely not.

    Expense will be the detractor, time spent fixing the machine only to end up with other faults cannot repair completely will be the other shoe to drop. Is where I got to on my Orphan Machine.
     
    Cat977 likes this.
  18. hector gemme

    hector gemme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    80
    Location:
    Ste-Julie
    I check today with my friend for the HD7 GB ring sealing and he has one used and this ring fitt on HD11b too