Meaning whenever I have to fix something, it seems like it’s always $100+ to fix it.
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A new Backhoeing Venture!
- Thread starter aighead
- Start date
mks
Well-Known Member
I think aighead read/expected $100 to be $1000
If your going to risk your equipment and time you should be making no less than 700 bucks for a full day you should also have insurance and you should have a minimum witch is about half of daily so say 350 bucks for a minimum of 3 to 4 hours otherwise you will end up paying for someone else's project and loose money
aighead
Senior Member
mks is correct. 100 seems cheap, not that I'd want to make 100 dollar repairs a lot but...
AzIron, your $$ sound about right.
Currently, I'm maybe a third of the way through a project across the street and I've WAY underbid it. When I thought about it I quoted 300 bucks and she said I was too cheap. I think they'll offer more money (Not sure if I'll ask for more or not), but it's certainly a lesson for me this time. I haven't timed the trip to dump a load and return, but it's a slow-go through the entire length of their yard, not a straight shot, and it's bumpy so I go slow for that too.
AzIron, your $$ sound about right.
Currently, I'm maybe a third of the way through a project across the street and I've WAY underbid it. When I thought about it I quoted 300 bucks and she said I was too cheap. I think they'll offer more money (Not sure if I'll ask for more or not), but it's certainly a lesson for me this time. I haven't timed the trip to dump a load and return, but it's a slow-go through the entire length of their yard, not a straight shot, and it's bumpy so I go slow for that too.
NH575E
Senior Member
Lucky guy! I need you to start fixing mine.
aighead
Senior Member
Lots of words!
Well, my neighbor, N, told me of a guy around the corner who wanted some work done. I drive past this house every couple days and see this old timer sitting in his garage just staring out at the world. N tells me which house it is so I go talk to him. He's got a well manicured suburban style yard with many mature, but well trimmed, yew bushes that surround the house. He wants them all out so he can plant some perennials and not have to worry about trimming the bushes anymore. That seems easy enough. I discuss the work he wants done and warn him that the backhoe is a heavy machine and all that and it may do a number on his pretty lawn. He understands and it's been dry for a week or so. He also asks if I can keep the landscaping bricks in place as much as possible.
I tell him it'd be 300 bucks or 250 bucks and a cane (he has a Canes for Sale sign in his yard). He agrees. I come back the following day, pull the hoe into the driveway and immediately someone stops and gets my phone number to offer more work. After that, I drive the hoe to the backyard and out of the corner of my eye I see a cable go whipping by. SON OF A!!! Somehow, I missed the phone line hanging across the yard, connected to the house. I went and looked at it and it had been repaired where it broke once already. I was very forthcoming with the homeowner and told him I screwed up. He no longer uses a landline so isn't real worried about it.
Next, I start on the bushes in the back, with my son helping. We get a couple of the big non-yew bushes out easily and without much trouble, but then it's on to the yew that are all closer to the house. Chains and straps won't stick well enough to them, they just keep sliding off. I flip around and start using the hoe to dig them out and that goes fine but quite messy, due to an extensive network of weed fabric that pulls the dirt up all over the place. I'm knocking his little pavers around and getting frustrated with the whole process. We're 2 hours deep and less than halfway done. It got late and dark and I talked to the guy to tell him we'd be back, but that it was calling for rain, so it may be a bit before I dare drive on his lawn any more.
I'm at an impasse. I'm really learning lessons. The first is pay attention for lines and cables and stuff like that (this makes me feel real dumb). Second, don't do work on a nice property. Third, quote prices 3 times higher than what I think.
This old guy sat in his chair and watched us the entire time. My beat up machine has a couple slow seal leaks so I'm nervous about that and I'm making a mess of his nice gardens. I told him I don't do finish work and he was ok with that but the whole job is turning out rougher than expected. I'm contemplating going back to talk to him to say that I won't charge him for the work I've done but I don't want to finish the job and risk destroying his yard. I really don't like the idea of giving up on a job but it seems like one I shouldn't have taken.
On the other hand, the guy that stopped to get my number has a couple decent sized jobs where he just wants stuff cleared out or moved, on more or less abandoned properties. He's not worried about my messes and understands what the hoe can do. I expect to make decent money from these, hopefully I'm not wrong again.
Well, my neighbor, N, told me of a guy around the corner who wanted some work done. I drive past this house every couple days and see this old timer sitting in his garage just staring out at the world. N tells me which house it is so I go talk to him. He's got a well manicured suburban style yard with many mature, but well trimmed, yew bushes that surround the house. He wants them all out so he can plant some perennials and not have to worry about trimming the bushes anymore. That seems easy enough. I discuss the work he wants done and warn him that the backhoe is a heavy machine and all that and it may do a number on his pretty lawn. He understands and it's been dry for a week or so. He also asks if I can keep the landscaping bricks in place as much as possible.
I tell him it'd be 300 bucks or 250 bucks and a cane (he has a Canes for Sale sign in his yard). He agrees. I come back the following day, pull the hoe into the driveway and immediately someone stops and gets my phone number to offer more work. After that, I drive the hoe to the backyard and out of the corner of my eye I see a cable go whipping by. SON OF A!!! Somehow, I missed the phone line hanging across the yard, connected to the house. I went and looked at it and it had been repaired where it broke once already. I was very forthcoming with the homeowner and told him I screwed up. He no longer uses a landline so isn't real worried about it.
Next, I start on the bushes in the back, with my son helping. We get a couple of the big non-yew bushes out easily and without much trouble, but then it's on to the yew that are all closer to the house. Chains and straps won't stick well enough to them, they just keep sliding off. I flip around and start using the hoe to dig them out and that goes fine but quite messy, due to an extensive network of weed fabric that pulls the dirt up all over the place. I'm knocking his little pavers around and getting frustrated with the whole process. We're 2 hours deep and less than halfway done. It got late and dark and I talked to the guy to tell him we'd be back, but that it was calling for rain, so it may be a bit before I dare drive on his lawn any more.
I'm at an impasse. I'm really learning lessons. The first is pay attention for lines and cables and stuff like that (this makes me feel real dumb). Second, don't do work on a nice property. Third, quote prices 3 times higher than what I think.
This old guy sat in his chair and watched us the entire time. My beat up machine has a couple slow seal leaks so I'm nervous about that and I'm making a mess of his nice gardens. I told him I don't do finish work and he was ok with that but the whole job is turning out rougher than expected. I'm contemplating going back to talk to him to say that I won't charge him for the work I've done but I don't want to finish the job and risk destroying his yard. I really don't like the idea of giving up on a job but it seems like one I shouldn't have taken.
On the other hand, the guy that stopped to get my number has a couple decent sized jobs where he just wants stuff cleared out or moved, on more or less abandoned properties. He's not worried about my messes and understands what the hoe can do. I expect to make decent money from these, hopefully I'm not wrong again.
Willie B
Senior Member
This one has grass seed on it now. About 90' of ditch. Toughest dig I've ever done in terms of obstacles underground & above. Dig Safe missed 100% of the infrastructure in the ground.
I once had a high school teacher used the phrase, "the old women of both sexes", he must have known these people.
"Is my Prius in the way?"
"The gravel you used on the driveway is the wrong color."
"Can you move the meter pedestal up next to the town road?" This after the job is done. The town plow would make short work of that!
I failed to mention a 12' wide row of brush growing on the steep bank along the town road.
The ATV parked in front of the garage, I believe last used by a son now living in Colorado.
All that, and the hardest soil ever. Ditch walls absolutely vertical, I couldn't scrape a bit of loose dirt at all.
I once had a high school teacher used the phrase, "the old women of both sexes", he must have known these people.
"Is my Prius in the way?"
"The gravel you used on the driveway is the wrong color."
"Can you move the meter pedestal up next to the town road?" This after the job is done. The town plow would make short work of that!
I failed to mention a 12' wide row of brush growing on the steep bank along the town road.
The ATV parked in front of the garage, I believe last used by a son now living in Colorado.
All that, and the hardest soil ever. Ditch walls absolutely vertical, I couldn't scrape a bit of loose dirt at all.
aighead
Senior Member
Willie that sounds gross. This guy hasn't been nearly the problem. He was clear on his requests and I was clear on mine but I'm finding that I can't keep things as nice as he wants it. I bought a backhoe so I didn't have to pick up a shovel too often and I don't really like getting down and doing a bunch of manual labor.
I've made that pretty abundantly clear for the next guy.
I've made that pretty abundantly clear for the next guy.
Aceofspades
Well-Known Member
Man, I get that, but I'd do whatever I could to finish it up for him. I'd chalk it up to a learning experience, and move forward, charging more and being more picky lol. I'm in the same boat more or less.
aighead
Senior Member
I mostly agree but is it at the cost of his landscaper charging more to clean up after me? I'll probably finish it. I'm learning, sad trombone.
Willie B
Senior Member
I can dig a ditch or hole pretty easily. Filling it in usually leaves some spoil dirt on the grass adjacent to the hole. When I restore a lawn it becomes much bigger than the actual excavation. One trick is put spoils in the truck & dump elsewhere. Yes, I then have to go with front bucket to retrieve it when backfilling. Another tool I use is dirt pans. I cut 275 gallon oil tanks in half, I've accumulated quite a few. Each gets 4 short chains welded to it at corners, another two off center on bottom. I have a rig hooks to back bucket, short chain to logger's grab. Through the ring end of logger's grab I pass two 12' 5/16 chains.
It works best to have a helper when backfilling. Put spoils in the pans, pick them up, swing to the edge of the ditch, set it down. Unhitch two chains to dump dirt back in. Some will stick in the pan, hitch to the two short chains on bottom.
It ain't quick, but saves some rake time. Clean up is easier with toothless clean up bucket with wrist, having only a toothed bucket, clean up is slow, imperfect work. I can restore a 4' wide ditch easier than 12' wide ruined lawn.
JL Sargent
Senior Member
If you are near me, I will come and bury your horse for $200.00. No insurance, no bond, no other promises. You just get a buried horse, that's it.
Finca SDR
Well-Known Member
You should work hourly. Everyone in my world works hourly. And everything takes twice as long as you think it should, on a good day.
Just tell customers you have no idea how those tree stumps are going to cooperate, how hard those bushes are in the ground, what kind of rocks you'll find, how this must is going to affect you. If they want a machine to do it it costs x amount per hour, you're welcome to pay me and send me home any time you get the idea I'm wasting time and running up the meter just for fun.
Just tell customers you have no idea how those tree stumps are going to cooperate, how hard those bushes are in the ground, what kind of rocks you'll find, how this must is going to affect you. If they want a machine to do it it costs x amount per hour, you're welcome to pay me and send me home any time you get the idea I'm wasting time and running up the meter just for fun.
aighead
Senior Member
Good ideas Willie!
JL- I'm not charging enough! I've been at the 100-120 or trade me a good rock territory!
Finca- Yeah, my next job, the guy who stopped me, mentioned above, will likely be hourly. I've told him that I wouldn't waste time or hose him on the hour meter, but I guess that can only be believed as time goes on. I'm probably not charging a high enough hourly rate but we'll see how it goes.
JL- I'm not charging enough! I've been at the 100-120 or trade me a good rock territory!
Finca- Yeah, my next job, the guy who stopped me, mentioned above, will likely be hourly. I've told him that I wouldn't waste time or hose him on the hour meter, but I guess that can only be believed as time goes on. I'm probably not charging a high enough hourly rate but we'll see how it goes.
Willie B
Senior Member
Most backhoes record hours based on throttle. Hour meter only runs true time at full throttle. Might better use your watch or cell phone to create time sheets.
It's a bit like welding time. My helmet logs dark time. In all day it might record 1 hour arc time. There will be hours you aren't running the tractor.
It's a bit like welding time. My helmet logs dark time. In all day it might record 1 hour arc time. There will be hours you aren't running the tractor.
aighead
Senior Member
Ha! I never even thought to look at the hour meter! I'm likely to check my phone prior to leaving the house and texting when I'm on my way and done for the day. Timestampy style.
When doing by the hour time disputes can be common I have never used an hour meter for time of work i have always gone by my watch
If your putting numbers to a job then just like hourly do a minimum if i garnered a number for a 3 hour job it would still be at least 600 bucks
Your dabbling in a buissness your not serious about you need to figure out if it's a hobby or a buissness if it's a hobby your probably never going to make what you should cause your not approaching jobs to make money your doing them recreationally and your not investing in insurance and other liability shields that phone line that was knocked down was a best case scenario
Just out of curiosity did you get a dig ticket for utilities and another thing to remember when pulling bushes and trees out they can destroy any pipe in the root area when you uproot them true experience was a tree broke a gas line valve and shut down a main and evacuated 2 buildings it was fought in court and settled by insurance
If your sure you want to do this start treating it like a real job just my advice and it's worth what you paid for it I hope your adventure works out the way you planned it
If your putting numbers to a job then just like hourly do a minimum if i garnered a number for a 3 hour job it would still be at least 600 bucks
Your dabbling in a buissness your not serious about you need to figure out if it's a hobby or a buissness if it's a hobby your probably never going to make what you should cause your not approaching jobs to make money your doing them recreationally and your not investing in insurance and other liability shields that phone line that was knocked down was a best case scenario
Just out of curiosity did you get a dig ticket for utilities and another thing to remember when pulling bushes and trees out they can destroy any pipe in the root area when you uproot them true experience was a tree broke a gas line valve and shut down a main and evacuated 2 buildings it was fought in court and settled by insurance
If your sure you want to do this start treating it like a real job just my advice and it's worth what you paid for it I hope your adventure works out the way you planned it
aighead
Senior Member
Good points AzIron. I can't determine if it's a hobby or a job either. If it's a hobby it's one I can't afford. If it's a job I haven't figured out my price points yet. My wife and I discussed it a bit a couple days ago and she's helping me to give better estimates or quotes with the attitude of if a person doesn't like a quote it isn't a big deal to not take the job. I like to help people where I can but it's tough to want to be helpful and not resentful of the help I offer at the cost I agree to.
Swetz
Senior Member
This happened to me on my own property...Wife wanted the shrubs removed from in front of the house, so, I hooked a chain to my pickup, and away I went. Sure, the shrub came out, but suddenly the hole was full of water (fun
. I look in the hole, and there is my well water line broken in half as the roots had grown around it. I wallered in the mud and fixed it, once I turned off the power to the pump to stop the geyser...LOLNote: All this was prior to owning a backhoe