953c bucket

[ncmoore77]

Hi all I have recently upgraded to a 953c cat from my old 941b
My question is the machine had a regular GP bucket on it now what is required to put a 4 in 1 bucket on it also what buckets work
Will a bucket off a 953a or 953b fit or is it series specific and it it really worth swapping the buckets
Thanks for any advice

 

[Tyler d4c]

A bucket off a a or b should I'm 99 percent sure fit a c you would need the third valve and the lines to get it working this could be two very different setups depending on serial pre fix is yours a bbx machine or a 2an machine

 

[ncmoore77]

It’s a 2ZN serial pre fix

 

[Cmark]

Full serial number lets you know whether or not it has a third spool. If it doesn't, it my be uneconomical to convert it.

 

[ncmoore77]

2ZN01195

 

[Nige]

Originally built with a 2-valve hydraulic arrangement. Unless it has been converted since it was built then you might find adding the 3rd function a bit pricier than you think.

 

[Welder Dave]

What do you want the 4 in 1 bucket for?

 

[ncmoore77]

I have always heard it’s easier to load stumps and such with and when the bottom is folded up you can use the blade similar to a dozer blade
There agin just what I have heard I do not have any experience with one

 

[Welder Dave]

In my experience if you're working in tree's and brush the hyd. lines for a 4 in 1 are just a ticking time bomb before they get destroyed. Tree's and branches are unpredictable and get caught up and mangled in everything. Using the bucket like a blade isn't the same as a regular dozer blade.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Round my way it's pretty rare to see a machine without a 4 in 1, and if one comes up I wouldn't buy it.
Once you've used a 4 in 1 you don't want anything else, whether it's for picking up an awkward rock, tree/stump, pulling material backwards, smoothing off while going forwards, using the flat of a blade to work on a road, gently scraping a surface, cleaning up the last bit on a job - the list is almost endless.

Don't think I've ever snagged a 4 in 1 line as they're behind the bucket, certainly no worse than any other pipe on a machine?

 

[Welder Dave]

In heavy trees and brush the 4 in 1 lines on the bucket are worse than anything else but it may depend on the particular machine how well guarded they are. The hoses for the cylinders need to have loops in them and it's easy to get branches get caught in them. A 4 in 1 is good for a lot of things but for general digging a standard bucket loads and digs easier.

 

[DMiller]

Nose heavy Counterweighting required as well. Not as nimble as with a GP and I can attest to that.

 

[Bill Edwards]

In heavy trees and brush the 4 in 1 lines on the bucket are worse than anything else but it may depend on the particular machine how well guarded they are. The hoses for the cylinders need to have loops in them and it's easy to get branches get caught in them. A 4 in 1 is good for a lot of things but for general digging a standard bucket loads and digs easier.

Pretty much all the machines I can picture in my head have the pipes running tight along the back of the bucket with plenty of metalwork guarding them and would be very difficult to damage. The flexible lines usually go between the loader frame and the links that crowd the bucket so while not completely shielded they're not particularly vulnerable, probably no worse than most tilt cylinders. I noticed the other day that Komatsu have swivels for the hoses on the bucket meaning they keep them shorter than most as they don't need to flex so much.

It is a good point that a 'standard' bucket is a better shape but a 4 in 1 is so versatile it's a no brainer, but of course it's down to what you do. I can understand that if you have issues with snagged lines and your work doesn't need one then your requirements will be different, I couldn't be without one.

 

[ncmoore77]

What kind of money does it cost to add that third function if it dosent have it

 

[Nige]

The list below is what has to be removed or added to convert a 2-valve arrangement to a 3-valve, in other words to add the 3rd function.

As it involves some major pieces of iron you would likely get no change out of $10k if you did it with new parts.

 

[DMiller]

Could check thru machinery trader on a parts search for the bigger stuff
Even used not gonna be cheap

 

[Bill Edwards]

How about an alternative method.

Tractor loaders usually have a valve fitted which when energised diverts the oil from the crowd mechanism to the third service. The idea is that you have a button on the joystick and you don't really need to tilt the implement at the same time as working the third service, so you press the button and move the joystick sideways to operate the third service. It gives a third control on the same lever, and reduces the number of oil pipes running between the tractor and loader as the valve is located on the loader itself.

Now, it wouldn't be quite the same on a track loader with a 4 in 1 bucket as you want to crowd it back at the same time as closing it when picking stuff up so it's wouldn't be perfect, but if it was going to save the best part of 10k and still get the job done is there any reason why it couldn't be done? A valve would probably cost a couple of hundred plus some simple pipework would need to be made up, and a wire run into the cab with a switch onto the control lever. It wouldn't be for everyone but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, assuming the tilt mechanism relief valve isn't set too low for a 4 in 1 bucket which I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be.

 

[sawmilleng]

If the loader hydraulics are powered by a plain old gear or vane pump, then you might consider a "farmer" method of adding a third valve: just plumb another open center valve in line with the existing two loader valves. It needs to be big enough to handle the oil flow from the pump which I'm guessing is in the 25-40 gpm range. Probably a 3/4" or 1" control valve.

I did that on my D4D, which had a single in-tank control valve for the outside-arm blade lift. I wanted to add a hydraulic tilt. The biggest task for me was to find a spot on the machine to mount the valve because I did not want to clutter up the machine fenders with valves, hoses and piping. I ended up mounting it under the floorboards and rigged a lever system to go alongside the stock blade control.

You could use an electrically-actuated valve like Bill suggests - then the only difference between my suggestion and his is the source of the oil to run the 3rd valve and its location.

A hydraulics shop could help you out with this--there needs to be some attention paid to ensuring pressure relief valves are added where needed and if "power beyond" porting needs attention.

Good luck!

Jon.

 

[LeakyBoot]

Hi all I have recently upgraded to a 953c cat from my old 941b
My question is the machine had a regular GP bucket on it now what is required to put a 4 in 1 bucket on it also what buckets work
Will a bucket off a 953a or 953b fit or is it series specific and it it really worth swapping the buckets
Thanks for any advice

Have one on my 953C. Is handy for grabbing things you can't get into the bucket very easy. Have not tore off any lines but have to keep that in mind as I use it.

 

[Dave Neubert]

Call Iron Peddlers in Monroe NC they should have the used parts you need 704-289-8591