'81 JD 410 Hydraulic Problem

[mackdj]

I just bought an '81 John Deere 410 and had the forward clutch replaced last week. I had the dealer do it since i am not set up for a project like that. I asked them to check all the hydraulic pressure before doing the replacement to make sure that it wasn't lack of pressure. They said they did and all the pressure from the pump was normal. So they replaced the clutch and returned it to me. I went to dig with the machine yesterday and the stabilizers wouldn't even lift the rear end off the ground. Also when digging the bucket didn't seem to have nearly the power that i feel it should when digging through topsoil. I am new to owning equipment but i have run several other types of excavators and backhoes before and have never had this problem - especially the stabilizers not fully lifting the machine.

So if the pump is producing regular pressure what else could be hampering the hydraulics from functioning properly?

One friend suggested to check filters, float valves and the controls themselves. Any ideas?

Thanks :Banghead

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to HEF mackdj! :drinkup

While I'm not familiar with your machine, somebody should be able to help you out. :thumbsup

 

[RonG]

I would not condemn the machine based on your observations,it is old enough to have earned a few concessions I would say.I am not saying that it could not do better but I have run many backhoes that had to be jacked up with the bucket while you lowered the outriggers to position yourself to dig.
Too much digging power will sometimes have you dragging yourself around,maybe somebody familiar with that type of machine can give you a better opinion.Ron G

 

[surfer-joe]

Older Deere's like your were notorious for low individual circuit pressures. 710's especially, but any models produced in that era are set up the same. Recommend you have the local Deere fellas come over and test and re-adjust all the pressures. Doesn't hurt to have them set a little on the high side.

 

[Squizzy246B]

So if the pump is producing regular pressure what else could be hampering the hydraulics from functioning properly?

One friend suggested to check filters, float valves and the controls themselves. Any ideas?

Thanks :Banghead

The pump may not be so good...it depends how & when they tested it...and as mentioned, individual circuits need to be checked.

Your friend has the a good idea to start with the basics....unless you have a full service history I would drop and clean the hydraulic tank and the pick up strainer/line. Look for crushed/collapsed piping. Then filters and new oil. A sevice manual will help with identifying the components.

Good Luck and let us know how you went.

 

[mackdj]

Thanks

Hey guys thanks for the input. I changed the two filters and the hydraulic fluid and checked the main pump again for pressure and it was fine but the problem still persists. So i am having the JD dealer come out and help me track the problem down. Hopefully they wont gouge me too bad since i asked them to make sure all was fine before it came home since i was already into it for $4,600 mostly in labor for them rebuilding the forward clutch pack.:Banghead So hopefully with a little trouble shooting we will figure out what is restricting the flow which is what seems to be the problem.

Ill update when we get more progress!

Thanks again!

 

[Rx7thHeaven]

Tractor looks good, I am looking at a similar backhoe, are you satisfied with it so far, held up good for its age?

 

[Phil]

I had a 310A once and while the engine was out I took the directional clutches apart. Parts for these older JD's are extremely expensive and I have heard many, many people stay away from them for that reason. Also aftermarket parts are not usually available. I think they are very well built but servicing some parts in the machine like brakes is very difficult. I remember an internal pump that charges the main hydraulic piston pump up front. Both have to be working properly for proper hydraulic pressure. I am not sure what pump works the clutches though, might be the internal pump I mentioned. Maybe they just checked the pressures for the shuttle clutches? I saved some info from a forum,on the main hydraulic pump on a 310. Phil

"The system pressure is controlled by the stroke control valve. It is located in the front cover of the hyd. pump, look up over the front axle at the bottom front of the pump you should see a allen head screw locked by a 3/4 nut, screw out to lower pressure. Use a guage and set the pressure to about 2250 lbs."

 

[Deere John]

Check to see that the suction hose to the tank is not collapsed, or that it was not replaced with a piece of hydraulic hose. Hydraulic hose is meant to contain pressure, and the inside liner will invisibly collapse if it is used in a suction application.

Just my quick, after work thought.
John

 

[dirtslinger]

I was running an 05 310G that had a similar problem. The rear hydraulics seemed to have no power at all. When I attempted to move around using the rear bucket it had no oomph and was unable to even pull myself forward. Had the rental company mechanic take a look at it and said its possible that it was the hydraulic spools. The machine disappeared the next day and replaced with a not as nice case. Unfortunately I havent been able to find out what exactly the problem was. If i see him around the yard on monday I'll ask him about it.

 

[zlssefi]

hyd pump

My father owns a 79 310B backhoe. Once when stuck in a mudhole he realized thebackhoe didnt have enough power to lift the machien and push it out. Lots of testing later, the relief on the main pump was screwed all the way in, if my memory serves me correctly, full pressure is with the screw all the way out. It gave funky, varying pressures during pressure checks. Id advise to check this screw on the main pump just in front of the radiator!

 

[ski53]

You need to have your local mechanic flow rate the hydraulic pump. If he has a Deere background he'll be back home in an hour. He will have 80 bucks and you will have a definitive answer. Best money you will ever spend and should be the first step.
It's not the pressure as much as it is the volume @ operating temp. Pressure will check out fine in a totally worn out pump until you move one drop of oil.
I owned two 410 and one 410B. Nothing odd or lacking about the hydraulic function of these machines. The longest I ever had a pump last was 8500 hrs, shortest was 4500 hrs on a straight 410.

 

[Countryboy]

Welcome to Heavy Equipment Forums ski53! :drinkup

 

[Phil]

Interesting ski53, I saw a compensated pump adjusted once with a flow meter, during operation.

I looked at an old John Deere backhoe a few months ago that had a gear pump mounted on the front. The owner had the original type pump fail and didn't want to put the money out for a replacement. The homemade pump drive had failed and he was selling it as is. The machine had a reservoir on the side of the fender, and must have been an early 60's model. Phil

 

[icnissan]

sorry to hijack this topic but i have a JD 315c 89 model has 10k hrs and when i lift the back hoe up or the front scoop(any hydraulics) it jerks (not smooth) as it goes up but when it goes down no problem what can it be? there are no unusual sounds.

 

[ski53]

sorry to hijack this topic but i have a JD 315c 89 model has 10k hrs and when i lift the back hoe up or the front scoop(any hydraulics) it jerks (not smooth) as it goes up but when it goes down no problem what can it be? there are no unusual sounds.

The functions are smooth on the way down because gravity is helping, jerky on the way up due to insufficient fluid volume. Does the problem resolve when engine rpm is increased ?

 

[icnissan]

its still jerky on rpm increase but only on way up

 

[Scout_1969]

You should check the following if you haven't done so already:

Fluid level?

Fluid condition?

Filters?

Screen?

Link to JD Parts, http://jdpc.deere.com/jdpc/servlet/...ts.HomePageServlet_Alt?search=model&model=315

 

[icnissan]

where are the screens? im new to tractors and hydraulics (i am a automotive mechanic by trade) or do u know where i can get a workshop manual or a pdf manual?

 

[Drc]

I ran several of late 70's early 80's JD 's 410, 510 before the B series.

They did not have enough power to the stabilizers to lift themselves up, ESPECIALY if the front bucket was down counteracting the lift.

Aside from that they were mean digging machines, fully throttle operation, allways needed more than one valve open at the same time otherwise the hydraulic speed was vicious, those things would dig 1000' of 4' deep trench a day.