8 Ton or 12+ ton Excavator purchase questions

[hollowellreid]

Hello

We are primarily Landscape contractors and residential builders/contractors in a fairly urban area- Currently we have a couple Micro John Deere 17g excavators as well as a 50D mini ex along with a handful of tracked skidsteers of different sizes.

I have been looking into purchasing an older, larger excavator for the last year or two- It would probably be used mainly to clean up around our yard, process materials, stack piles, and so forth. I would guess a couple times a year it would go to a job for some 1/2 acre clearing jobs, septic install, sewer line replacement, etc. Likely it would be a ~15-20 year old machine to fit into my price range.

I guess the main question revolves around IF there is enough size difference between a 50 size mini and a 75/85 Midi to justify purchasing one? Or does one make the jump to the 120/135 zero turn size to make enough difference between the two?

Currently I have a 39k GVW single axle truck with air brakes and a 20k air brake trailer so could likely move the 75/85 Midi, and would have to hire the (occasional) hauling of the 120/135 Series machine until I could upgrade truck and trailer (which is on my list but might be a couple of years)

I'd prefer to stay with Deere or Takeuchi as thats what most our other equipment is, although I'm open to any other suggestions.

Does anyone know of any semi-modern 10 ton class machines that exist? They seem to be a super rare size but might fit the bill nicely for us (I know there is a CAT next gen 310 but thats way too rich for my blood!)

Thoughts?

 

[KSSS]

Your concern would be my concern as well. I don't think the size difference between a 50 and 75-85 is big enough to give you a significant advantage. Easier to mob for sure, but is that enough to justify buying one? I would say not at least where i sit. Especially with what you want to do, the dig depth difference is not enough between a 50 and 75. Especially on sewer projects and maybe lifting trench boxes and so forth. Going with a zero tail 135-145 would give you significant increase in capacity and take on larger work. A tandem truck and a bigger trailer would move it. I wouldn't get overly excited about brand at that age. Find one in good shape, have it checked out by an OEM mechanic and call it a day. You have your OEM preference as does everyone, but a machine at that age is more dependent on condition than what color it is in my view.

 

[suladas]

I have a 6 ton and rented a 8 ton a few times and can't say there's much of a difference, not enough to justify purchasing one hoping to do more with it. I've done septic and sewer line replacements with my 60 and 210 and the 60 can get it done but it's slow, it's a PIA setting a trench box. If it's in an open area you won't make any money doing sewer line/septic with a 80 if someone else can bring in a 200 to do it in a fraction of the time though, but a 120-130 would be able to do it pretty well. A 120-130 would be a nice in between for sure. Depending on what you plan to upgrade to for moving it and how big of jobs, 120-130 are very pricey here, as well as 160's, you can find a nice 200 for cheaper.

Takeuchi makes a machine bigger then 8 tons though, seen a few around still in rubber tracks. I'd bet it's around a 110-120 size.

As long as you stick with one of the known brands and don't go grey market, I wouldn't hesitate to own any of them and as KSSS said, the condition is more important, it's not easy to find a 15-20 year old machine in good shape at a reasonable price.

 

[hvy 1ton]

Does anyone know of any semi-modern 10 ton class machines that exist?

EX100s exist, but finding on in decent shape let alone non-gray market will probably be a chore.

 

[hollowellreid]

Thanks for the replies so far- seems you guys are helping to convince me of what I already suspected was the case.

Some details:

I agree that brand really doesn't matter- I care less about the brand or color and more about who I have relationship with for parts- we do 99.5% of our repair and maintenance in-house and this machine will be the same- I know this machine will probably be semi-rough given my budget and goals, so really its about the parts guy...we are gonna need a lot of those I'm sure.

Our area overall is PRETTY urban and tight- I have rented a 180 for yard work in the past and it works around our shop but would likely be way big to have anything near a 200 for our use- Although I completely agree that as size goes up used pricing on Excavators becomes a lot more attractive- Overall maybe I would expect to spend 10K or so more for a used 120/135 vs. a 75/85- and the difference was much more significant when new!

Any work we would be doing would just be a residential sewer replacement to the street, smaller house addition, etc. It could all change in 10 years but in the near future a 135/145 would more than fit our needs for years.

The EX100 would be ideal if they still made one- would love a Hitachi machine. I'm not even expecting to find something in "good" shape, but at least usable- and hopefully not a money pit. We love a good fixxer-upper as long as it's productive and reliable. Dont seem common though.

Any thoughts on a blade on a 135 size machine? I know on the Mini's they come in handy for stability and grading/cleanup- My thought is on a machine this size they would get in the way in muddy conditions/climbing a pile/deep excavation etc- But a decent number of machines seem to have them.

Thanks again for

 

[skyking1]

Michigan follows the 34,000 per tandem bridge rule.
https://oversize.io/regulations/axl...Permit Weight Allowed,width for a single axle.

135 machines run about 30,500 pounds
20 ton tandem tilts are ~10,000 at a minimum
You can get by with 6000~7000 pounds of tongue weight, so plan accordingly or get a three axle trailer. My preference is a 120 on tandem, but you may have heard that before

 

[KSSS]

I think a blade would be a must have. I seriously considered a 145 before i bought the 160 and a blade was a must have for me on machine. I use a three axle 50 ton trailer. I am hauling a heavier machine, but the three axles trail better and not as finicky on load placement as the two axles are, just my preference.

 

[suladas]

I think a blade on that size is a toss up, a lot depends on the work it's going to do. If doing a lot of concrete/asphalt removal a blade is nice in those cases. It's nice if working on slopes a lot to level machine. But a blade is annoying a lot when digging like a basement it's totally useless, also the extra weight if you're close to a limit on something. It's nice for backfilling a trench and getting it level fast. If it was me, i'd probably decide if I found a machine I liked and took whichever it had, which ever way I went probably 50% of the time i'd be happy with my choice, the other 50% i'd be cursing myself for the choice.

Anything around that size would pull really nice on a tandem trailer with tandem truck. I run around 13000lbs pin weight on my dump truck, it takes a lot of weight off the front end but it drives fine, I need it to not be overweight hauling my 210 on a 25 ton tag. The heavier tags are generally built for 20-25% pin weight and will take it fine. IMO unless your weight limits are crazy low or you want to haul something else with it, I wouldn't consider a 3 axle trailer for anything under a 160, the extra axle just isn't needed and generally the trailers get really long. You really don't want a tag longer then 30' or it's just too much of a pain to get around with.

 

[hvy 1ton]

@hollowellreid Random 2 week later thought; I assumed you wanted a non-swing boom 10 ton machine. If that's not the case, Yanmar has been selling SV100s in North America since at least 2010.

 

[Tones]

Most excavators have the same track drive assembly whether they have a blade or not. IMHO blades on excavators are the cause of a heap of pain when these assemblies fail. For that reason I say no to having a blade particularly on buying older machines.