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'65 530CK/Model 32 hoe aka "The Great Hoe of Babylon" troubles...

1968 Case 580CK

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OldPhart......Ok, we have slighltly different designs on our hook-ups. I looked in my Parts Book, and those part numbers are not listed. My hoe just mounts on the lower "hooks" of the arms, and then the large nuts way up high apply downward pressure so she cant bounce out of the arm hooks.

580CK Resto Late June 2015 158.jpg
 

OldPhart

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NW MT
1968, that's looking REALLY nice there-mine is a '65 530CK so I have no cab and our backhoe attachment systems are totally different. I like your system MUCH better than the one they used on this one.

I'm thinking I'll have to build up the "arm hook" portions with hardfacing in order to get rid of some of the slop and also build up the bores of the "cone nuts".

The hoe still stays attached to the tractor but it works fore and aft probably an inch with every forward and back motion of the hoe, and that's with weak hydraulics-no telling what she'll do with full power...
 
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OldPhart

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Sep 2, 2015
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NW MT
Hmmmm....

Well, I finally got the valve body out of the sucker without scoring any flare fitting mating surfaces [yet]. You guys were right, it IS one heavy chunk of iron.

Upon removing the big hex cap [D36805] on the bottom left end I believe I may have located the bulk of the problem:

{PICTURE FORTHCOMING-I'm a techno-Luddite and have misplaced the cable from my digital camera to the computer-no wireless technology for me!**

Should I just tell ya what I found or should I let everyone dangle in suspense until Sunday when I'll have time to hunt down the cable ?
 

OldPhart

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NW MT
OK, actually on your s/n both 30714 (lower) and 30717 (upper) are used.

With your hoe pressures down make sure you check out the hose couplings. Your cylinder leak down rates are way to high for recent rebuilds. If the bucket boom and crowd cylinders leak down the worst it's probably worn out valve spools and bores leaking by.

I did notice when I unhooked the hoe that there was a pretty good flow of oil out of that q/d fitting. I took the male end apart and cleaned it out at that time but haven't yet fooled with the female end. The race into which the retaining ball bearings in the female fitting snap is somewhat pounded by those balls but it still works and doesn't leak so it's probably not getting a new one unless one shows up on eBay for $5.99...

My 50 yr old Craftsman 6" bench vise is now tweaked from me beating and banging and using a 4' cheater pipe on the hoses and 90 deg hard lines coming off the valve body and I'm probably going to finish the poor thing off by trying to take that female fitting apart.

I only have 1 set of big wrenches and need 2 of the same size for that fitting. My biggest Crescent wrench fits but I destroyed my custom-made one-end-flattened-to-accept-its-handle 5' cheater pipe while working elsewhere on the GHOB and I just haven't taken time to make another one yet.

I just despise using pipe wrenches on anything other than pipes, makes me feel as though I'm working under a big ol' oak tree with a 1950's refrigerator filled with beer leaning against it, Kenny Rogers' "The Gambler" blaring from the 8-track and 5 hound dogs wandering around peeing on everything. [OK, I'll admit to having 3 Boston terriers who pee on everything and enjoying Kenny Rogers-but we have no oak trees here in NW Montana and I quit drinking beer 17 yrs ago]
 

Old Magnet

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Corralitos, California
Case sells a handy heavy duty crow foot wrench, 1/2" drive for the hydraulic line nuts.
Check those hose couplings closely. If the balls and ball groove are beat up they won't engage enough to open the internal valves.
"Quad rings" are o-rings with four corners/ridges. Doubles the sealing edges. I purchase mine from McMaster but there are on line sources that sell small quantities. I don't have a cross over list for Case, had to go by dimensions.

Now that I posted the parts breakdown I see that s/n 4102884 is yet a different arrangement.
 

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OldPhart

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NW MT
TY for quad ring info.

Balls looked fine in a quick inspection, the race had a few shallow ball imprints. I don't recall which hose has the male and which has the female ends just now. Tractor and loader have worked fine with both ends connected to the loader valve but maybe the flow demands of the loader aren't nearly what the boom cylinders require?

The problem wasn't in getting the flare nuts off the valve body, it was in separating the hard lines from the hoses themselves.

Those hoses had been on there so long [many of them evidently installed by Godzilla wielding a 36" pipe wrench and overly enamored of red locktite] that I really thought I would just have to trash some of the hard lines and have new ones made...even heating wasn't enough to remove a couple of 'em, I had to heat and then quickfreeze the male ends before they would FINALLY release.

BTW-I discovered [maybe it's already well known] that computer-duster-in-a-can makes a really good and relatively cheap freeze spray as long as you don't breathe the resulting vapors.
 
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1968 Case 580CK

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Oldphart......yep, thats alot of movement back n forth.....so building it up is a great idea. Im just curious if a used tractor place might have some good used ones to replace yours. Probably would be a remote chance, but if you happen to call Dale at Tractor Stuff about the Orings or something else, you may ask if he has any old 530s in his yard. He has been pulling parts off some old 580CKs that he has, and he even made a new floor pan (covers the battery area) and it looks almost exactly like the original.
 

1968 Case 580CK

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Oldphart......My wild guess is that the spring inside was broken. I hope to see the pic in a few days........Good things come to those who wait. However, weight broke the wagon down.
 

1968 Case 580CK

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OldPhart......I was surprised that my quick disconnects were fine, after soaking in some WD49 for a few days. However, since I was getting new hoses, I went ahead and had them put the new quick disconnects on. Those suckers were about $30 bucks apiece.

I agree.....the thought of using a pipe wrench on any of the hydraulic areas is like finger nails on a chalk board, at least for me. I ordered an entire set of crows feet on ebay for around $60, and it sucked that I had the quality Case ones laying around but could not find them. A large size adjustable wrench comes in handy also.....even the Harbor Freight El-Cheapos.

Is that 1950's frig under the oak tree a propane or electric model? Im betting that Jethro had a rusting old propane cylinder laying on the muddy ground beside the Blue-Tick Hound's leaking dog house, and that gas frig had those Pabst Blue Ribbons ice cold. Jethro guzzles down one, tosses it over at the dog (trained to attack some of the time), and peeled another pull-tab off the next PBR, took a hefty gulp, and wiped the sloth off his chin with his greasy striped coveralls. Keeny Rodgers is stuck replaying, "You gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them", so Jethro walks over to the '54 with a smashed in door, and gives the 8 trac a good bang with his fist, and ole Kenny proceeds to sing the rest of his story. The picture fades away as the ole hound dog has his rear leg raised on the flat rear tire and was doing his best to make sure the lug nuts would rust in place.
 

1968 Case 580CK

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Old Magnet.....I had to google "quad oring", and now I can see what it is.....kinda an "X" shape if you look at a cross-section of the oring. So, you actually have 4 sealing surfaces instead of one large one.
 

OldPhart

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Well, crud-

The digital camera cable has evidently burrowed into the darkest recesses of the "dog room" wherein lies all my extra electronics-related plunder...I apologize for no pictures after I promised such, I WILL unearth it this week somehow.

1968Case580CK hit it on the head-it was a spring, or rather the remains of one in at least 7 separate pieces. Naturally CASE has retired the part # [D36600] and I can't seem to find a stock one anywhere on the Internet so spent a few hours this afternoon researching springs and learned all sorts of stuff I somehow haven't had occasion to know about before.

After fitting the pieces together as close to their original shape as possible I've deduced that it was about 3.50" long, 0.93" OD, 0.57" ID with a wire diameter of .188".

You would think that, armed with that info, it would be a simple matter to go to Grainger or MSCdirect, plug in the numbers and a stock spring reasonably close would pop up.

Tain't so...seems that the vast majority of stock springs anywhere close to that OD are actually 1" or 25mm-which is 0.04- 0.05" too large to fit [without drilling it oversize] in the large hex cap [D36805] on the bottom on the L side of the valve body [D36122].

Several of the spring outfits have a minimum order of around $90 which I'd probably be willing to pay if they had a closely matching spring, but they don't. The cheapest price I found on a one-off custom-wound spring was $250 with a 3 week lead time.

All is not yet lost, however. I found an outfit in Wilder, KY-W.B. Jones Co.- which has only a $25 minimum order and which stocks a nearly perfect-sounding replacement for the grand sum of $8.32 apiece. I'll be calling them tomorrow [today now, actually]. Talk about an answer to prayer!
 
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1968 Case 580CK

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Location
Virginia
oldpfart.......I hear you about the hard time your having finding a spring. I have a Ford tractor which has small springs pushing against balls that hold the tranny gears in place, and lost one, and just needed a spring about the size of an ink pen spring. Ford wanted about $50 for it, so I managed to get a box of springs from harbor frt for $4, and found one that was pretty close.........it works.

Seems like maybe you could use one a bit smaller in dia, and maybe add a flat washer to make sure it compresses/contacts where it needs to. Hope the $8 one works. Good luck.

Hey, maybe that listing propane frig might have one tucked away in its innerds someplace.
 

lantraxco

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Try the CAT dealer, they have a system called "Similar parts" where you enter as many dimensions/specs as you think are needed and the chart will print out anything in their system that's close. Start a little under on diameters so you get the whole range.
 

Old Magnet

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Don't know if this will help but might be an additional route.
The valves used on the #32 hoe were originally built by Commercial Shearing.
Your model precedes mine but may use the same spring.
Commercial Shearings model # for the D36122 I have is a C20-19.
Good luck with the hunt.
 
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