'65 530CK/Model 32 hoe aka "The Great Hoe of Babylon" troubles...

[OldPhart]

I'm needing to be pointed in the right direction on this old girl. I briefly documented my history with her in someone else's thread HERE:

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...king-at-a-Case-530-Backhoe-and-need-some-help

Still not getting full pressure in any of the hoe cylinders. 3000 PSI gauge inserted in the loader valve port shows ~ 2000PSI when loader functions are used, anywhere from 900-~1400PSI on hoe functions depending on which one is activated.

Loader runs strong and plenty fast, lifts a full bucket without any problems.

All 7 hoe cylinders have just been rebuilt [ALL were in really bad shape with some packings torn and even missing-amazing that cylinders would move at all], the power beyond O-ring has been replaced, the O-rings and plunger have been replaced on the pressure relief valve on the loader control valve.

Just replaced the 5/8" hoses to the boom cylinder as mechanic friend thought there could be an internal restriction [they were looking really ragged outside]. Made no appreciable difference.

The curl seems to be the strongest cylinder. The boom will not lift a full bucket of dirt. While all cylinders now cycle thru their full ranges of motion, they all are down on power. Book specs say the hoe should have ~ 8900# breakout force and I'm pretty sure a bucket of dirt doesn't weigh even 1000#

Probably spent 10 hours or so reading here and on another forum, replacing the power beyond port O-ring gained about 200 PSI but still not enough. Cleaned the screen in the loader pressure relief valve as some posters mentioned that-didn't find any crud in it.

Hydraulic filter just replaced with WIX 1517, gauge runs in the green now,was red before. Pretty much all the fluid has been replaced in the course of repacking the cylinders. I do plan on replacing it all with Case fluid when it goes on sale in November unless you guys think it would be a waste of more $$$.

Even after rebuilding all cylinders they all leak down somewhat within 1-2 minutes and there are drips from the hoe valve body. Does this mean worn/missing O-rings in all the spools?

Is there such a thing as a complete valve body rebuild kit for these old hoes? Aftermarket would be great as Case seems WAAAY too proud of their parts. They quoted me $22- for an O-ring backup strip in the loader valve that should cost about $0.50 and over $30 for a spring in the same item [the old parts look fine but since I was in there I thought I'd replace them-NOT AT THOSE PRICES]

I'm thinking my next step is to pull each pressure relief valve in the hoe valve body and look for crud/missing O-rings. I gather from other threads that Case OEM O-rings are the way to go-what say you guys?

I hate to mess with detaching the hoe and removing/rebuilding the valve body right now since winter is approaching here in Montana and really would like to defer that until next year if there's another quicker, simpler place to look. It doesn't absolutely have to run at peak power but sure would like to be able to lift a few half-ton rocks before they freeze to the ground for five months.

Anybody got some firsthand knowledge they care to share with an old guy with an old hoe? Thanks in advance-

 

[OldPhart]

Forgot to mention that the slots in the hoe control tower are plenty long for full valve activation in all directions as someone had posted in another thread that sometimes wear requires the slots to be lengthened-

 

[lantraxco]

Valve type depends on the backhoe serial number, but it appears they all have a backhoe main relief in either the inlet or outlet section. Start there. Pictures will help. Backhoe serial number, not the tractor.

Cheers

 

[melben]

Before you get to deep into valves and such , check the o ring on the power beyond sleeve, it is on the loader valve outlet fitting where the hose comes out that goes to the backhoe. Most times when there is a difference between hoe and loader pressure it is suspect. It is on the fitting that screws into he loader valve on the fitting toward the inside. Do not change any relief settings on the hoe valve till you have checked it, Case generally controlled all functions both hoe and loader at the loader relief so it should read the same whichever system you are operating.

 

[1968 Case 580CK]

OldPhart......I am restoring my 68 580CK, and one of my next steps is to rebuild the backhoe valve spool assembly.....it may be the same one that you rebuilt. Here is a pic:
'


When you said that the filter was replaced, and that it had been operating in the "red" or "dirty" zone, that is throwing a red flag out.......Im wondering if dirt/trash went past the filter and is clogging up someplace. Did you remove the valve spool (pic above), and replace all the orings, and thoroughly clean it out?

I have been ordering alot of stuff, including the orings, from Tractor Stuff in Indianna........prices are great, and Dale is very helpful in giving advice.

The fact that the cylinders all leak-down some within a minute or two makes me wonder if maybe the seals/valves in the hand-control assembly may be leaking fluid back into the reservoir, even when they are not supposed to. Pic below:



I have not rebuilt this, but I imagine there is a one-way valve that could be leaking in your case. Maybe this leak could also be lowering the pressure levels going to the backhoe cylinders?

 

[lantraxco]

If you look at the picture of the stack valve there, the left end that's resting on the table, that big hex is the backhoe main relief valve. Depending on serial number it may be in the other end block on your machine, probably on the top. I see you say that you have replaced the power beyond O-ring, and the loader relief gives you 2,000 psi, so I'm betting you need to start at the backhoe main relief and then work on from there. If you look closely you will also note that not all the valve sections have secondary relief valves, when you are checking pressures it's best to activate a valve section that does not have these work port reliefs so you know you're getting a reading on the main relief. I don't know what the book says, but your backhoe main relief should be 150 psi above or below the loader valve so they don't interact and cause oscillation in the system.

 

[1968 Case 580CK]

If you look at the picture of the stack valve there, the left end that's resting on the table, that big hex is the backhoe main relief valve. Depending on serial number it may be in the other end block on your machine, probably on the top. I see you say that you have replaced the power beyond O-ring, and the loader relief gives you 2,000 psi, so I'm betting you need to start at the backhoe main relief and then work on from there. If you look closely you will also note that not all the valve sections have secondary relief valves, when you are checking pressures it's best to activate a valve section that does not have these work port reliefs so you know you're getting a reading on the main relief. I don't know what the book says, but your backhoe main relief should be 150 psi above or below the loader valve so they don't interact and cause oscillation in the system.

Lantraxo.....So, when I begin replacing all the small O-Rings, I should also open up this relief valve and just inspect and clean? Any precautions I should be aware of when opening it up? Thanks

 

[OldPhart]

I listed all the things I've previously tried in my original post, the power-beyond O-ring being one of the first things done which gave ~ 200PSI improvement in backhoe function pressures.

As pretty much all the hoe hoses are just accidents waiting to happen and seeing as to how I did lay out and remove the hoe from the machine [some genius had welded the hoe to the tractor at some point, glad I wasn't the one who had to cut all that loose-but judging from the quality of other welds on the machine it may have merely fallen off], I'm currently in the process of changing ALL the hoses on the hoe valve body. It won't be nearly as easy to get to 'em ever again. Right now I've averaging about one hose removed for every 2 hours of labor.

I doubt if any of them have been replaced within the past 25 years and the incredibly thick, tenacious layer of shmoo clinging to every single surface is way beyond anything I've ever had to contend with in all my years of wrenching on my own cars and trucks. It's pretty much like Shoe Goo on steroids.

My 3000 PSI pressure washer has removed the thickest chunks now [by using the narrowest tip and cutting the crud away in small, brownie-like squares]. Repeated application of oven cleaner and brake cleaner really hasn't helped a whole lot.

A lot of my time is spent freeing up the flare nuts on the tubings after I finally manage to find the magic combination of wrench, leverage and BFH to break a fitting loose without breaking metal, knuckles or rounding off the flats. A couple of the flares have only responded to a torch and sudden application of freezing spray.

 

[lantraxco]

Yep, I would unscrew the big hex and disassemble carefully, clean, replace and and all seals, then reassemble in exactly the reverse order.

 

[OldPhart]

1968 580CK-that pic looks a lot like my valve body except my big hoses to/from the loader valve connect to ports on the sides rather than on the front .

I haven't rebuilt it yet, haven't even gotten to the point of being able to remove it.

I'm hearing from the Case dealer that the O-rings are the only things I'll likely be able to get from him. Have you been able to source other internal parts like seals, springs etc. for your valve body from Tractor Source in Indiana?

What I haven't run across yet is how to get each control valve apart once I have the whole valve body removed via the 3 bolts. At least some [maybe ALL] of my drips appear to be around control valve rods and I seem to recall seeing somewhere that there are O-rings on each of those rods internally. Maybe all will be revealed when I finally have the whole friggin' thing removed and cleaned up.

The same retarded monkey-with-an-arcwelder that welded the hoe to the tractor also welded the hoe control tower onto the 1" thick top of the hoe frame so I can't access any of the relief valves on the valve body top without sprouting long, skinny proctologist-type fingers that can reach in there, so while I have this puppy out in the daylight I want to be certain to replace anything and everything that I possibly can 'cause I sure don't plan on ever doing THIS job again...

I'm planning to tighten up all the threaded rods which actuate the valves so there's no slack there, remove and grease both the rods on which the swing pedals and the control levers pivot and add nylon or copper washers wherever possible to minimize play in the controls.

I may even splurge and replace all the nails and baling wire which presently hold the parts together with new cotter pins-if I have any $$$ left at all after all this mucking about.

 

[OldPhart]

TYVM, lantraxco-I have a sneaking suspicion that THAT is where I'll find the major solution to the old girl's woes, but since I couldn't see any reasonable way to access that and hope for a quick fix without removing the hoe-now that she's off and laid out and I'm doing all the hoses it seems a waste not to pull the valve body and do EVERYTHING I possibly can so I won't ever have to mess with it again.

At 64 it's not getting any easier to stand on my head, hold a dirty, greasy wrench true on the flats of a dirty fitting or nut, shine the flashlight correctly and swing a greasy hammer straight. Better believe that each and every one of these fittings is gonna get antiseize on the threads as it goes back together just in case, though...

 

[OldPhart]

Source for "cone washers" that hold the hoe to the tractor?

I believe the correct part # on these is D30714. My friendly CASE dealer wants $77 and change for EACH of these. Some PO monkey welded the hoe to the tractor and pretty well trashed one of 'em, and they are both egged out at least 1/4". I can build up the bores with weld and then Dremel them down if necessary but an alternate source like from a different brand of tractor would be great. If I had a lathe I could make 'em for no more than $12 for the pair even paying retail for the stock, but I'd be happy to pay $40 for a pair in order to not have to mess around with the welding/grinding right now.

 

[1968 Case 580CK]

1968 580CK-that pic looks a lot like my valve body except my big hoses to/from the loader valve connect to ports on the sides rather than on the front .

I haven't rebuilt it yet, haven't even gotten to the point of being able to remove it.

I'm hearing from the Case dealer that the O-rings are the only things I'll likely be able to get from him. Have you been able to source other internal parts like seals, springs etc. for your valve body from Tractor Source in Indiana?

What I haven't run across yet is how to get each control valve apart once I have the whole valve body removed via the 3 bolts. At least some [maybe ALL] of my drips appear to be around control valve rods and I seem to recall seeing somewhere that there are O-rings on each of those rods internally. Maybe all will be revealed when I finally have the whole friggin' thing removed and cleaned up.

The same retarded monkey-with-an-arcwelder that welded the hoe to the tractor also welded the hoe control tower onto the 1" thick top of the hoe frame so I can't access any of the relief valves on the valve body top without sprouting long, skinny proctologist-type fingers that can reach in there, so while I have this puppy out in the daylight I want to be certain to replace anything and everything that I possibly can 'cause I sure don't plan on ever doing THIS job again...

I'm planning to tighten up all the threaded rods which actuate the valves so there's no slack there, remove and grease both the rods on which the swing pedals and the control levers pivot and add nylon or copper washers wherever possible to minimize play in the controls.

I may even splurge and replace all the nails and baling wire which presently hold the parts together with new cotter pins-if I have any $$$ left at all after all this mucking about.

OldPhart.......Man, I know what your going thru as I recently removed the old hoe from the back of my 580CK. But at least no Sparky welded the pins to the tractor, but there were some other welds made in an attempt to strenghten the frame. After soaking for days with penetrating fluids, those huge nuts came off, and the pins came out, and the hoe came off without too much pain and suffering.

Pics of the hoe off:


This shows the upper control tower and the sheet metal is welded......I wish that Case had used alot of bolts instead of the weld.




Pic of all the lines marked so I know how to put them back on......Note: I had plastic sandwich bags over the marked ends, and rubber bands holding them to keep the rain out. The sun caused the rubber bands to deteriorite and most of the baggies came loose. A couple got moisture on them and the perm. marker writings were disappearing. I got to them in time, and no rain went into the lines, but just a note not to use rubber bands, and also that Perm Markers are not "permanent".



Important: When you unhook the backhoe, you must recconnect the hydraulic feed line back up to the front bucket control valves. If you fail to do this, and you start up the tractor, the hydraulic pump will blow, or something will blow. Fortunately, my 580 cranked and had so much pressure that the starter would not spin any more. I tried jump-starting, over-charging the battery, etc., but she still would not crank. Then I realized that the quick-disconnect hydraulic line needed to be connected back to the upper valve port. Then, the pressure was relieved, and she started right up. Fortunately no damage was done in my case.



Back to some of your questions:

1. ORings......TractorStuff had them cheaper than anyplace else. I got an entire set to rebuild the Hoe, with some extra just in case for around $35. Ask for Dale (and ask him if Old Abe found his knutz yet....he will laugh). Im not sure about other internal parts, as I have not yet begun working on mine, and am hoping that the Orings will be all I need.

2. Control Valve......After taking the backhoe off, it was pretty easy removing the control valve....but that beast is heavy....a good 100 pounds, so have a sawhorse or truck tailgate or something ready to receive it. Im thinking that I can leave the entire assembly together and just work on the ends to replace each Oring.

3. Thats a good idea to add washers on those control tower rods.....I think I will do the same.

4. Yep, I had a couple nails instead of cotter pins too......its a good feeling to put the right size cotter pins back in where they belong.

Hey.......I wont call the EPA and squeal on you regarding all the sludgeola being blasted off the old lady.....I have to admit that some of the ground under my rig wont be growing grass for some time....ha ha.

 

[1968 Case 580CK]

I believe the correct part # on these is D30714. My friendly CASE dealer wants $77 and change for EACH of these. Some PO monkey welded the hoe to the tractor and pretty well trashed one of 'em, and they are both egged out at least 1/4". I can build up the bores with weld and then Dremel them down if necessary but an alternate source like from a different brand of tractor would be great. If I had a lathe I could make 'em for no more than $12 for the pair even paying retail for the stock, but I'd be happy to pay $40 for a pair in order to not have to mess around with the welding/grinding right now.

OldPhart.......Im not sure what you mean by the "cone washers". I could not find that part number in my parts book for the backhoe. Are you talking about the two large pins that hold the upper part of the backhoe to the tractor mounts? These suckers:

 

[Old Magnet]

You lightly touched on the loader relief valve, saying it was clean but did you check the small orifice under the bronze screen? If this orifice (or screen) is plugged the main relief can stay open. If the orifice is not plugged the opening can be seen through the poppet when held up to a light.

Cone washers are part # D30717 (4-req'd)

 

[lantraxco]

OM, he did say he was getting 2,000 psi on the loader functions, would that not indicate the loader main relief valve was functioning properly? Sounds a tad low to me but then I know nothing about CASE 530's.

Past the loader relief valve, the power beyond sleeve and seals and then the backhoe main relief I would think would be the two main suspects?

 

[Old Magnet]

You are correct 1950-2000 psi is what is expected at the loader valve, assuming it maintains under load.
The backhoe loader relief on the 530CK is different than what is being shown in the pictures. It is located in the inlet section and contains two parts, relief at the top and regeneration check valve on the bottom. Final set pressure for the relief is 2250 - 2350 psi. Plenty of little parts in there to be checked.
As far as o-rings on the valve spools, there is only one at the top. I replace mine with quad rings.

 

[OldPhart]

OldPhart.......Im not sure what you mean by the "cone washers". I could not find that part number in my parts book for the backhoe. Are you talking about the two large pins that hold the upper part of the backhoe to the tractor mounts? These suckers:

View attachment 142066

Nope, in my parts book the cone washers are shown on p74 as item #7 D30714 [used before backhoe s/n 4103251] mine is 4102884...they fit into cone-shaped depressions near the rear of the support arms [where the bolts welded onto the hoe body slide into the support arms] and are then secured with wrench/hammer T-nuts [p/n D31495]. The hoe is then prevented from sliding out the slots backward-

 

[OldPhart]

You lightly touched on the loader relief valve, saying it was clean but did you check the small orifice under the bronze screen? If this orifice (or screen) is plugged the main relief can stay open. If the orifice is not plugged the opening can be seen through the poppet when held up to a light.

Cone washers are part # D30717 (4-req'd)

Yes, I'd run across a post of yours on YT mentioning the bronze screen and orifice in the main relief valve so that and the power-beyond O-ring were my first things checked.

 

[Old Magnet]

OK, actually on your s/n both 30714 (lower) and 30717 (upper) are used.

With your hoe pressures down make sure you check out the hose couplings. Your cylinder leak down rates are way to high for recent rebuilds. If the bucket boom and crowd cylinders leak down the worst it's probably worn out valve spools and bores leaking by.