580SL Manifold Heater vs Ether Injector

[Tinkerer]

Modifications like the one you want is well worth the trouble. Especially if you can eliminate the use of ether.
If it were my 4t 390 I would put this one on it. No fuel involved.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Diesel-Eng...:btwAAOSwu3ZcNkRm:sc:USPSPriority!61360!US!-1
with it.

 

[Kurly]

How about a portable Honda generator supplying the 120 volt block heater? How big (watts) would you need? Then Go for coffee or breakfast. Probably better for the engine. I always have 120 V, but the block heater in my 580 C was a great investment. Is there a remote/computer controlled start-up for a portable genny? Unless your in the "hood" and then generator would be long gone...
Just a thought, Curly

 

[highwayghost]

The block heater is on the machine and I have a Honda 3000 that is always in the back of my truck so I could do that. I don't have the remote start kit but it would be a cool addition.The kit is a little pricey and only has a range of 1500 feet. U R right, unless your watching it it would be gone. Mine has been cable locked in the back of the truck for so long i can't find the key. I was thinking manifold heater so that you could start it without the delay time of the block heater.

 

[Tinkerer]

The drawback of using a coolant heater is that it takes about two hours to be effective depending on the air temperature.
A good manifold heater takes about 1 minute before engaging the starter.

 

[check]

This thread got me interested in putting a manifold heater on my Case 1845C (if I decide to keep it), which has the naturally aspirated 4-390 Cummins. But where could I mount one? Maybe replace a section of that intake hose with steel pipe? The heat will rise and since there is no airflow during pre-heat, I'm afraid of heat cooking the hose. Any ideas?
It has a block heater but I don't have electric power so would have to carry a generator, an idea I don't relish. I despise ether and want to avoid it if at all possible.

 

[highwayghost]

In picture 004 where the rubber hose meets the intake manifold there is a round protrusion. This is where on some models there is a threaded hole and the intake heater is inserted. Mine is like yours and I was thinking to remove this top intake plate and drill and thread a hole. A new gasket will be needed.

 

[check]

In picture 004 where the rubber hose meets the intake manifold there is a round protrusion. This is where on some models there is a threaded hole and the intake heater is inserted. Mine is like yours and I was thinking to remove this top intake plate and drill and thread a hole. A new gasket will be needed.

Thanks, good idea. Were you thinking of using a heater which does not use diesel (electric only)? It might also be a good idea to put a section of thin tubing inside the rubber hose to protect it from high temps coming off the heater. I've seen a few such heaters on ebay and amazon for diesel pickups, but they are probably too large for the 4-390. It would be nice if vendors mentioned the thread size and watt draw on them, too.

 

[Tinkerer]

Check ; There is a manifold cover on Ebay with the correct part number. But the image doesn't show the threaded hole. It would be a fairly simple task to drill the one you have and thread it.

 

[highwayghost]

I have been watching the intake heater element in the link below on Ebay. No diesel. Unfortunately they don't give any specs and so I'm not sure this will work for the application. When I decide to go for the this I will just buy the heater and after it arrives then find the correct drill and tap. It is cheap enough to give it a try. I have something similar, single element manifold heater, on my farm tractor with a Duetz engine and one on a Kubota generator and they work great. Need it now but unfortunately it's not at the top of the 'to do' list. Will have to order the gasket in the diagram that Tinkerer posted. Hopefully all the bolts remove well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/International-Engine-Glow-Plug-IH-BD144-BD154-TD5-500-Crawler-Tractor-Loader/201914115457?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[check]

I have been watching the intake heater element in the link below on Ebay. No diesel. Unfortunately they don't give any specs and so I'm not sure this will work for the application. When I decide to go for the this I will just buy the heater and after it arrives then find the correct drill and tap. It is cheap enough to give it a try. I have something similar, single element manifold heater, on my farm tractor with a Duetz engine and one on a Kubota generator and they work great. Need it now but unfortunately it's not at the top of the 'to do' list. Will have to order the gasket in the diagram that Tinkerer posted. Hopefully all the bolts remove well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/International-Engine-Glow-Plug-IH-BD144-BD154-TD5-500-Crawler-Tractor-Loader/201914115457?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

With that short a coil, it doesn't seem like it would put out enough heat for more than one cylinder.

 

[jimg984]

the intake thermostart has desiel fuel to it, when you apply power to just a few seconds, it has a thermostrip that heats up open to let fuel in, by that time be cranking engine fuel and make a flame going into intake manifold,, when power off to themostart closes stop fuel flow, most fuel lines are teed of return line form injector pump to fuel tank. probably takes 1/2 NPT for it to screw into

 

[Birken Vogt]

I have a dumb question. Is intake heat even necessary on this particular engine? The 4B engines I have seen will start on their own down to the single digits. But I have not worked on a 580.

 

[Tinkerer]

Here is another style air heater that is on my tractor It requires a battery cable to supply the power to it. I never used it and eliminated the wiring and solenoid that powered it. Salvage yards have them for sale.

 

[Delmer]

With that short a coil, it doesn't seem like it would put out enough heat for more than one cylinder.

That looks like a glow plug that goes inside the cylinder, so one per cylinder. The deutz has a flame start, correct? with the fuel to it.

edit: tinkerers looks more like a manifold heater, or the grid heater that goes over the whole intake

 

[highwayghost]

Only had the 580SL w/4T-390 for 6 months so not sure how it will react to the cold start. Unfortunately it must set out. Most diesels I have seen are happier with the heater. Figure it would be good insurance. Again, not a fan of ether. My Duetz is electric only. Haven't pulled the element from the manifold but it seems similar in size. Probably about 3/4 NPT but I suspect it is metric. The mounting placement is similar to what Tinkerer posted, center manifold. The glow plug shown may not be enough. It's just a thought and I appreciate all the input! Same is also on Ebay for <$8. Cheap for an experiment. My wife is calling it our 'money pit'!! Haven't ruled out the diesel element. Heard that they leak sometimes. Could put a small valve on the line to prevent that when not in use.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/710348R1-New-international-Glow-Plug-2276-3434-BD154-BD144-IH500/172114817754?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[Delmer]

again, that's a glow plug that goes inside a cylinder, you need bigger heat for a manifold. Cross reference the number and see what the other ones look like.

Have you ever tried an ether injection system? or used a can correctly? (crank the engine and give it a little whiff when it's cranking as fast as it will get)

 

[highwayghost]

Thanks and Yes I do understand that ether will work but at 62 I've seen enough that my preference is to only consider using ether as the last resort. I was also skeptical of the glow plug being enough but after the rest of the install swapping for a larger element will be a snap.

 

[check]

swapping for a larger element will be a snap.

If you can find one that has the same threads. Just getting a seller to identify them seems nearly impossible.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I would wait until I know it actually needs a start aid. Try to start it on the coldest morning and see how it does. If it is really dead and you need to move it, then warm air from a propane torch down the intake while cranking will easily get it going for a temporary solution. If it is even necessary. These things are known for their cold starting characteristics in other applications (pickups, generators). With a healthy battery and starter motor.

You can find a cold start video of almost anything. Here is what I would expect.

 

[highwayghost]

I came across this thread about using ether and many more. Search 'ether'. Just some of the reasons I'm looking into the manifold heater for the 580SL.

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/threads/case-580-e-cummins-4-390-engine-questions-help.32515/

The heating element I ordered will be delivered today. I'll experiment with it a little.