580SE Power Steering Cylinder

[bowen]

Ok, so what's the secret to getting the tapered ball joints loose?


I need the little cylinder off so I can see what all I need to replace. I may need the whole unit.
I got the one out at the wheel but this other one is tight.
I tried several hammers soft to hard, small to 2 lb, no luck.

I got the other one loose with this railroad jack, with a small hammer up top helping.
But this one has the jack lifting the entire front end of the machine, and still I can't get it to break the tapered pin loose.

Do I try a 8 lb sledgehammer? This looked like such a simple little job.

 

[alrman]

I usually leave the cylinder in place unless it needs to come off, just to save the grief.
You need a tie rod separator to do it efficiently. But if you give the side of the housing that holds the taper a couple of good sharp hits with at least a 4lb remover - it will do the trick.

 

[bowen]

.. if you give the side of the housing that holds the taper a couple of good sharp hits with at least a 4lb remover - it will do the trick.

Hummp.. I already beat the hail out of it some:bash
I was wondering if I might heat the frame up a bit.
I have several sizes of 3 jaw wheel pullers that I was wondering about.

I would like the whole thing out because I need to work on the hyd line/connections also.
I cleared some heavy brush and I may have damaged the tube.

 

[Tinkerer]

But if you give the side of the housing that holds the taper a couple of good sharp hits with at least a 4lb remover - it will do the trick.

Notice that Alrman said the side of the housing. That almost always will pop it loose. A tie rod separator that you hit with a hammer is my favorite, (sometimes referred to as a pickle fork). There is also a tie rod separator that you can put in an air chisel. I don't have one, but I think it would sure make the job easier. It looks like this one.

 

[bowen]

The picture is not clear, but on the left tie rod clamp, someone has welded this to the rod.
I do not know yet if this will make me replace the complete cylinder or not.
It's leaking real bad at the end, plus at the t-fitting also. I know I need a new o-ring.
The parts list shows a snap ring(s) on the front but I have not cleaned it up enough to see one.

Should I go ahead and do both sides?
I think the tie rod ends are OK if the threads are still ok on the stubborn one.

Plus I am thinking about letting someone install the seals.
He has the kit, and he claims these little rascals are a SOB to rebuild.

 

[alrman]

If the oil is leaking at a fitting, fix that first & see what happens. If the cylinder is dented anywhere, the piston will tell you, as it will be badly scored.
If you have rebuilt the hoe cyls, there's no reason you can't do these little 'uns

https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?23196-Case-580C-steering-cylinder
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...-Do-you-know-how-to-disassemble-this-cylinder

 

[bowen]

If the oil is leaking at a fitting, fix that first & see what happens.

Kinda bad news. I loosened and unscrewed the cylinder from the tie rod that's still in there for now.
I WILL get it out :yup
Both of the T fittings were loose and one is bent pretty bad with a crack, so I already got a new T fitting.
But, the cylinder rod has a nice crook in it, and also the rod is scored. A rod makes it uneconomical to repair as I see it.

This part is confusing to me. Case shows the current number 234449A1 unit. ($443 from Coleman)
It shows an older number D128454 which Reliableaftermarket has for ~$176 (13 in stock)
I think these even come with the rod ends but may ship unpainted.

Yet when I called them to order this, they came up with a # D92099 unit ($214) that is supposed to be a direct cross for the 234449A1.

What I am unsure of is the difference in the # D92099 vs. # D128464 cylinder, or which one I need... or will either one work?
The Case parts page has some short description that tell about this, but for some reason I can't see all the text.
Maybe it's a Google Chrome thang...

I ended up ordering the D92099 unit. I hope it is the same as mine... Description says 16 1/4" to 23" with a 12" tube?

I also ordered a new aftermarket seal kit for the other side which they sell for $11.60 ea -
(Case wants $31.50 for this kit # D148100.)

I see from the links you posted that these little cylinders must be harder than the big one to get the seals crammed in there.
I will not do the other side yet, because I suspect that cylinder was replaced in the past. It is rusty and looks like it was installed unpainted. I may take it off and paint it, plus find a way to regrease the joints.
With no grease fitting all I see to do is remove the boot and clean out the joint with my knife/lubricant/de-greaser/water/air, then finger some new grease around the ball, smushing the grease in with the boot. My joints work ok, but the grease inside is just dry greasy looking powder. It's upside down so oil would just drain out.

Concerning the aftermarket seal kit prices...
I have been buying Case seal kits, but I need two for the loader cylinders # 1543262C1 (old # G109460)
Case price was $44.50 ea and they have the kit for $ 19.79 I was real pleased with the stabilizer cylinder I got from this place, so I suppose I will now see what their seal kits look like. This place sells mostly on ebay I think, but you can order direct online or call them.
I'm sure Mel will be ticked at me for doing this..

 

[Tinkerer]

If the gland is held in place with a wire snap ring, tap on the gland with a hammer and blunt punch. The gland will move into the barrel slightly and allow the snap ring to be released a lot easier. When you reassemble the cylinder be sure the to pull out briskly on the rod so the gland comes out and properly seats the snap ring in its groove.

 

[bowen]

I got all the rods ends out today.
Here is the cylinder I am having to replace. The scoring is pretty bad.


The rod is also bent and you cannot hardly work the cylinder in/out. It get's stuck in.
That's the tee fitting that is bent and was leaking.

To loosen those rods I tried the jack with an 2/4/8 lb hammer hitting the axle frame. No deal.
I tried some heat with a small bottle torch. No help.
I have an old tie rod removal tool that I tried. No good+ and the one I had destroyed the boot.
Lastly, with the jack pressure on the bottom I used a crow bar to get between the axle and the nut on the cylinder.
Prying on the axle, both popped right out.
It was the inside ends that were rusted/froze so hard. I don't think they had ever been out.

I think all you mechanics are bad to unscrew the cylinders and not replace these inside rod ends.
Mine sure looked like the original ends and both balls joints were froze up with hard/dry grease.
IMO these should be removed and cleaned + re-greased at least when replacing the seals.

So all is off now & I am waiting on the new cylinder which I hope comes with new ball joints.


This is the pair and the painted one is actually the bad one. The ugly one seems to be in great shape.
I think this was replaced in the past but unpainted.
I have already sanded and cleaned it, and I will paint all if this before I reinstall the parts.

I think the confusion I had on the replacement part number cylinder has something to do with 4WD. (Mine is 2WD)
It refers me to a service bulletin NLB SB 00291 & I have no idea what this is about.

 

[bowen]

Well I ordered the wrong cylinder...
Below is the difference in the 2WD vs the 4WD power steering cylinder for a 580SE.


And from RAP this is how they shipped it.

Unpainted and unassembled. Plus the ball joints are the ones without grease fittings.

The 4WD version looks the same, but it's longer. So I learned another lesson about ordering parts...

 

[Tinkerer]

Hi Bowen, Just to add to your dilemma, I did a quick look at the Case parts book and found this;

The D84800 is on ebay for $195.00 + shipping

 

[bowen]

The 2WD version is cheaper but I paid dearly for all the freight to get it.
I have a question on adjusting the ball joints.
I am looking at the technical manual that shows 2.7" and 1.25" per the drawing. (Page 5010-3 in v9.2)
But as I measured the holes it seems I need to lengthen this by about 1/4" on each end. (screw ball joints out)

The cylinders have a 6.5" stroke and I put the cylinder in mid stroke with the wheels straight to measure the distance.
If I do it like the manual says the cylinders will be extended 1/2" past the mid point when the wheels are straight.
(So they can move 2 3/4" out or 3 3/4" in before I max the cylinders out.)

I have not measured yet to see what the physical travel is yet for each wheel.

Should I do exactly as the page says?

 

[bowen]

Should I do exactly as the page says?

Yeah, do it like the book shows.

 

[bowen]

If anybody wants to see all the parts related to the power steering cylinders for a 2WD 580SE, this is about all of it.