580k wont start

[Sebastien]

Hey guys, first time posting but have been reading for a couple years. I have been able to fix most small problems from reading posts but cant seem to figure this problem out. my 89 580k backhoe died while running and now won't start. I was cleaning and burning on my property, it has a small hill at the back end where the shop is and i put it in 4th and went to the end of the 250 meter driveway(800ft) got a bit bumpy slowed it down dropped it to 2nd and pick up wood and back to the pile by the shop and as dropping the wood it died cranked it over and nothing, thought fuel right away, borrowed my sisters tow truck and put the backhoe in the shop. i installed a brand new injector pump 8 months ago and has run great. change both fuel filters, checked fuel solenoid, checked timing on fuel pump( letter G at the flat part of the washer, read on here thank you) re-primed the system crack bleeder screw pump with mechanical pump, turn key crack 5/16bolt on pump and pump with mechanical pump then i cracked fuel lines at injector 1 at at time have fuel there and fuel at the injectors. stated thinking i didn't line the key way with gear for the pump and thought about pulling out but the timing looks good. had my buddys dad come and give me a hand last weekend and we went thru it all again even changed the solenoid with the old pump, bleed the system again and still nothing. there is no inline fuel filter on this unit there is a water fuel separator above the injector pump which i just replaced. It had a fleetguard fs1233 and the bottom glass had lots of **** in it, put in a raycor R24P. tried again and no go. tried getting a mechanic to work on it and told him everything i did and all he said was sounds like you did everything and ill think about it. super frustrated. I hope its something small that i missed. please let me know and thanks

 

[thepumpguysc]

Loosen ALL the lines AT THE INJECTORS AT THE SAME TIME.
R u spinning the starter fast enough.?? Or should I say, is the starter spinning the engine fast enough.?
Do u have the throttle wide open while starting..
Is the manual shut off out of the way.. normally they’re spring loaded to the run position..

 

[Delmer]

The order you wrote sounds like you opened the injector lines, then later found the filter with garbage. If you replace the filter, you need to bleed it after, then crack loose the injector lines at the injectors, then crank until the bubbles are gone, tighten the lines and it should start.

 

[Sebastien]

yes the starter is spinning the motor over fast enough its a new starter, I was unsure if to crack all injectors at the same or 1 at a time and same about full throttle. where is the manual shut off located?

 

[Sebastien]

Yes Delmer you are right I changed the 2 main fuel filter tried to start it and then noticed the water separator fuel filter was dirty so i just changed it last week and bleed the fuel filters and pump but didn't crack all injectors. I will start from the beginning again and see what happens. Im sure from my lack of experience that i keep missing a step or rushing and hoping for a different outcome. ill will let you guys know what happens, thanks for the advice

 

[Tinkerer]

Did you clean the banjo bolt (#7) by the lift pump ?

 

[Sebastien]

hey guys, I checked the bango bolt and it was clean, re-bled the system, and nothing. tried with starting fluid and started to smoke out the stack and almost went but didn't. I'm stumped

 

[Tinkerer]

Did you bleed the lines AT the injectors until all the air bubbles are gone like Delmer said in post #3 ?????
How much fuel is in the tank ?

 

[Sebastien]

yes i did and there is 3/4 of a tanks of fuel. I am going to do compression test next i guess. this unit has run great since i got it with very little problem. slow cranking when i got it but it was the starter, put new one in. fuel leaked at injector pump so replaced 8/9 months ago flashed right up ran perfect no miss and smooth and now i can get it to fire. I have replaced all filters checked fuel solenoid and even swaped it with one from the old pump, removed all fuel lines and blew out incase there was something in there, checked return line. took off injector pump cover to look at timing and its at the letter G on the flat part of the washer which i think is where its supposed to be but cant find anything on that, though i read it on this forum somewhere. the backhoe ran great till the moment it died

 

[Tinkerer]

Have you removed the outlet line on the lift pump and cranked the motor over to check it ?
Is the throttle wide open when you try to start it ?

 

[thepumpguysc]

I’m always available to take a look at it for ya..
Have u done the “seized” check yet.?
Pull off the fuel inlet line..
Fill the fitting on the pump w a little fuel, right to the top.
Now crank the engine & check the fuel level..
If the fuel got sucked down, good.
If it’s still where u put it, that’s bad.(seized)

 

[Coy Lancaster]

Hey Sebastien I know you said that you checked the timing on the drive gear for inj. pump but did you check to see if the woodruff key had sheared?

 

[thepumpguysc]

Just thinking out loud here..
If the key was sheared, and the timing pin dropped in, the letter would not be aligned with the C-clip.
Give me your pump # and I’ll look it up so we can put “this part” to bed.

 

[Sebastien]

the Pump number is
JR917063
M06199210B
A54L900/1/2400

 

[thepumpguysc]

The letter IS “G”..
The offer still stands.. I’ll gladly have a look at it for ya..
Be sure to have the throttle pulled to WIDE OPEN and plenty of fuel in the tank while cranking the engine..
Good luck..

 

[Sebastien]

hey pumpguy the inlet line your talking about is the line from the tank to lift pump that you fill with fuel to check if the lift pump is seized?
with the injector pump mark at the letter G I don't need to pull the pump then?, I was gonna pull it today.
I have the repair manual and on one page it says to crack the 3/4 fuel line to bleed the air just above the filters and on another page it says to crack the 10mm bleeder fuel line that goes to injector pump. I would love for you to take a look but we are a long ways apart it sunny here but -5c (23f).
So far I Have replaced all fuel filters, checked the timing on the injector pump, checked the banjo bolt coming from the lift pump and now it has a small leak around the copper washer, bleed the system multiple time, had plenty of air when i cracked the 3/4 fuel line coming from the lift pump to filter housing so pumped with lift pump till there was no air and tons of fuel was coming out of the banjo bolt, removed the spring and pin from the fuel solenoid and i even tried starting fluid again and it doesn't start but it does smoke from the stack with it. It doesn't seem like i'm getting enough fuel to the injectors and its hard to tell when i'm in the cab trying to start it and i have the throttle wide open.
where should I restart?

 

[thepumpguysc]

On the injection pump u have an INLET & a RETURN..
If u remove the fitting in the INLET, you’ll be left w a hole..
Fill that inlet hole w fuel to the top.
Crank the engine and recheck the inlet.. is the fuel gone.?? Did it get sucked down into the pump.??
If yes, the inj pump is not seized.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I just did one the other day that was COMPLETELY FULL of rust and varnish & BIO-fuel..
The customer said he limped it back to his shop..
When I took it apart, only one pumping plunger was “free”.. it was dragging and the other was stuck.. I had to remove it with a punch and knock-a-meter..
He said it ran.!! Not good mind you, but it ran..

 

[Sebastien]

So i removed the inlet fuel line on the injector pump both front and back and they were both full of fuel, I cranked the engine and the inlet just above the fuel lines to injectors was empty but not the one at the back where its bolts up to the engine. I filled it up again and cranked it over and fuel dissapeared, I hope this means the pump is good

 

[thepumpguysc]

Yes, if fuel disappeared from the inlet, the internals are moving.. which is a good thing..
The fuel return which is in the front of the pump, where it bolts up, doesn’t mean anything..
I find w a lot of those pumps, the lobes on the cam ring gets smashed down.. primarily from water.. U can’t compress water..