580e problem! no power to ignition

[Farmereinar]

i have my 580e, replaces the ground strap and cables not long ago, batteries were weak so i was jumping the one side, it cranked for about a second, didnt kick over and then letting off the key i heard a sizzle under the dash, now i have no power to gauges, or ignition switch, pulled the switch out of the dash and hooked a jumper wire to it just to check, now the gauges have power, but guess the rest of the machine has no power, as after i charged up the batts it will crank but im guessing the shutoff selonoid has no power i have power up to the starter, and the one wire runs to the alt. and has power, as well as the other wire coming off the big starter nut (which i guess runs into the cab?)

any guesses on what it might be? is there a fuse panel behind the steering wheel somewhere?


also my front headlights have a short...is there a common spot where the wires get pinched?


thankssssss!!!

 

[Ando]

You will have power at the starter and B+ on the alternator, as the battery is directly connected.
Check the "Batt" terminal on the key, is there power there?
You should have continuity between the large terminal on the starter motor and this "Batt" Terminal.

 

[alrman]

Pull the dash out & you will see a row of circuit breakers (4or5 from memory) - test them all with a test light - there are no fuses from factory - but that doesn't mean it won't have any now.
Some E's have a large solonoid (under dash above accelerator) some have relays - has to do with starting

 

[Farmereinar]

thanks!

its a later e (1989), my dad bought it new, so its never been tampered with, and never really had an electrical problem till now

i hear a distinct "click" when i hook the jumper wire up to the one terminal of the ignition..and all the gauges come on with this click

new ignition didnt solve the issue (why i came here)

none of the ignition terminals have 12v does that mean i need to look for a burnt wire?

 

[alrman]

Could be you have a dead short in it somewhere - look for sparks/smoke or feel if wiring is warming up - as you put jumper wire on -
play with switches - cab fan,wipers,lights etc - as you do this
have a good look around taillamps & their wiring looms as these somtimes get damaged
good luck

 

[jld]

check your ground cable for good solid clean connection. If its bad the battery tries to ground somewerer else ( like starter switch)

 

[alrman]

Forgot to mention circuit breaker on engine near starter motor - this is main feed to dash - still could have a short in it though

 

[hammerdwn20]

Forgot to mention circuit breaker on engine near starter motor - this is main feed to dash - still could have a short in it though

I found this to be my problem when we had the 580e. left me dead in a snow storm and wouldnt charge the battery either

 

[diggerdave1958]

Also i have a Case 580se and had this problem too found it to be the Ground strap from the battery to the frame. Its the woven type i took the strap off and cleaned it up in the parts washer and wired brushed boths ends and she started right up. Hope this helps

 

[gggraham]

The ground strap of the battery on these are bolted to the step bracket in the back. Do not take for granted that because it looks or seems tight that it's OK. These bolts tend to sheer off between step and frame so the only real connection is through rust. The bolt can break then seize into the step. This bolt is not threaded into frame , it has a nut on the other side, it's a bit of a bugger to get at. remove it, clean the strap and the surface it bolts to and replace the bolt and nut.
When you have no power in cab check the connector under the rh corner of cab see diagram. These can corrode or come apart. The main breaker and small circuit breakers are shown this is what Alrman was talking about. Now just to throw a curve at you the 580SE had 3 different wiring schematics, One with fuses near starter, one with a big relay ( as Alrman mentioned) and one with 3 smaller relays. If you have a small kick panel behind your brake pedals held by 2 bolts likely you have the 3 relay system I'd check them too.
As far as lights not working it's probably one of the circuit breakers. There were 3 types used one with spade push on connectors and one with threaded post with bullet type push on and one with threaded posts with nuts and eyelet connectors. The threaded post with nuts and eyelet connectors held wires more secure. These connections can be bad or the breaker itself is worn out. Check as Alrman said and replace them if nec, typical symptom of worn out breakers is function works for a few minutes and cuts out then starts working again. Make sure you hook them up correctly, they have a batt and an aux terminal. Make sure your hot(power) side hooks to batt terminal. They will work reversed but not for long.
Last pull the lights apart and check the wires Case had a habit of tying the wires in a knot inside the lights on the SE and K's they tend to rub through and short out.
Hope I covered everything.

 

[Farmereinar]

thanks for the replies!! i ended up fixing it last week after pulling off the dash, realizing i had no power coming into the machine at all, and a tech at case said its always this cab harness connector, so i climbed under the machine, pulled it apart and, yeah, they all looked fine and shiny except for the big red wire, which was completely green w/corrosion and actually broke off. pulled it out of the connector and bypassed it with a piece of 8gauge wire and connectors and shrink tube works now! i had the 3 relay system, i had no circuit breaker near the starter

my alternator is new but acts like it cant keep up with the lights & heater on, so maybe this will help with that problem? ive gone over and wirebrushed every connection, new ground strap, cleaned battery terminals and starter nut terminals, alternator terminals, etc, with all my machinery i always keep a close eye on keeping my connections clean


also with the headlights, last year i put in a new breaker under the dash and its still doing the same thing, the relay keeps clicking off and on (im guessing its not the new relay, as its working as it should) i have a short in the wire somewhere that is cauing this. ive also replaced both headlights which hasnt helped with the on/off problem

i guess i will begin tracing the wire up through the headliner panels, it looks fine as it travels under the dash and up the side of the cab

 

[gggraham]

I knew that connector was the culprit. 9/10 times no power in cab it's that connector. I think the early 580K had the same problem with that connector.

 

[Farmereinar]

thanks again, just pulled it out of the shop tonight, welded buckets, new heater control cable, new control switch panel, new batteries, new cables, new fluids, new hoses to e-hoe & metal lines to there as well, new muffler & pipe, new horn button

still cant figure out where my front headlight short is, i traced the wires all the way down through the cab and not one bit of chafed insulation, the headlight wire on the relay gets hot almost instantly and cooks in there, then after about 15 minutes the lights flicker on and off wire looks clean coming out from under the cab, i took the floor plate off and it goes into the big main harness and up the dash, im not really in for ripping all that loom apart though....

thanks again everyone!

 

[gggraham]

I'd just take the wire off the aux side of the breaker and run a new wire tie wrapped to the harness back the where it connects to the lights. It could have rubbed through a ground wire inside the loom and you'd never see it. The only other thing I can see being wrong is the breaker installed backwards, the battery wire is on the aux side and the wire out to the lights is on the battery side of the breaker.