580E Power Shuttle Leak

[rbmiles1]

I recently purchased a 580SE (first backhoe) which has a bunch of leaks (which I knew it going in) and I'm in the process of trying to get a handle on them. One of them is from the side of the power shuttle right around #51, #54 (attached image). I suspect that I need to replace the #42 seal.

What is involved in doing this (as in, is it possible)? From what I can tell, I have a "cluch cut out" solenoid on the outside of #54, how does that come off? I can't find any mention of it in my parts catalog or the service manual.

I appreciate any help you can provide.

 

[bowen]

One of them is from the side of the power shuttle right around #51, #54 (attached image). I suspect that I need to replace the #42 seal.

What is involved in doing this (as in, is it possible)? From what I can tell, I have a "cluch cut out" solenoid on the outside of #54, how does that come off?

I would say you need to remove and rebuild the stem/control valve with a few o-rings.
Also read this thread.
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?26356-580SE-Power-Shuttle-Fluid-Question

The solenoid screws off after the linkage is disconnected. After the bolts on the other side are removed, the control valve comes out the right side.
I have bought all the parts for mine, but not got them installed yet.

 

[rbmiles1]

Thanks bowen, I was actually just reading your thread. I sounds like we are both fighting the same problems. Have you pulled the control valve out yet? It looksl like a lot of parts, does it all come out together?

 

[sheepfoot]

It's not a bad job, takes about an hour after cleaning area, removing the 4x4 protection if installed, the orings should work but I have also had to send the housing off to the machine shop for a sleeve on several machines in the past, note the end cover with the safety switch, detent spring and ball when you install to get your timing right or it mite not start for you when completed and you will have to turn the end cap again. The control valve is one unit and not taken apart to replace the two orings.

 

[bowen]

It looksl like a lot of parts, does it all come out together?

Due to bad weather and my schedule I have not had time to do this yet.
I also ordered a seal installation tool, item 42A, part # D123956 ($ 1.93). This is a small plastic piece that I do not know how to use yet.

The large pipe for the fill/oil level stem has to come out, and I was warned to put some cover over or a rag in this hole to prevent trash or parts falling into the hole.

You can check the neutral switch with an ohmeter. It has two wires on the switch. Should be 0 ohms in neutral, and open if if gear.
The neutral switch has no 12VDC on it, as it opens the ground to the start relay.

 

[alrman]

I also ordered a seal installation tool, item 42A, part # D123956 ($ 1.93). This is a small plastic piece that I do not know how to use yet.

The seal (#42) is a lip seal - it must be installed on the plunger with the lip pointing into the body. The plastic tool goes over the seal while inserting the plunger into the body - like using a piston ring compressor to fit a piston to a cylinder.

the orings should work but I have also had to send the housing off to the machine shop for a sleeve on several machines in the past,

Further to sheepfoot's comment, early valves only had one oring (#50) later models have two.
These do wear the shuttle housing as mentioned, & once worn, new oring's do little to stop the flow of oil. To save removing the shuttle & stripping it for this repair - unless an overhaul was in order - I have sucessfully machined the oring groove on the valve body to allow fitment of a larger section oring & then refitting the valve only.

 

[bowen]

Forget the number I posted above for the seal installation tool. I have no idea where I got that number. Tool S/B # D75492.



This is the parts I have bought to repair mine. I also got new seals for the neutral switch and the dipstick fitting.
I hope my housing is not worn inside as I may not know how to even measure up inside the housing.
It was not really leaking until I did the oil heat-up procedure with the parking brake on.

I also hope that the little lip seal stays put as I pull the stem out so I can see which way to point the lip side.

I need some new ball joints for my linkage, but I have to get them off and cleaned up to see if I can find these local.

 

[willie59]

It's simple bowen, the seal has a lip on just one side, that lip goes toward shuttle housing, hence the reason for the plastic install tool, to compress the lip on the seal to get it in the hole on shuttle housing.

I'm near certain you can order spherical rod ends from NAPA or from Grainger. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/spherical-rod-ends/bearings/power-transmission/ecatalog/N-apd/No-0

 

[bowen]

I'm near certain you can order spherical rod ends from NAPA or from Grainger. [/url]

McMaster Carr is where I order from often. Grainger is here close, but normally a bit pricey.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#spherical-ball-joints/=fibtp6

I am sure they have these once I see exactly what they are .
Case # D63154 is $ $28
I know they are 1/4-28 but I don't know if they are Female/Male RH or LH etc.
When I get time to take them off I will order from someplace.

McMaster is a good source for all kinds of parts. Good web naviation for screws etc.

My linkage works ok, has loose motion makes the neutral knotch up top unreliable.

 

[rbmiles1]

You guys are awesome, it sounds like it should be doable. The previous owner must have already been planning this because I found Items 42, 42A and 43 unopened in the toolbox. The way I see it I might as well change the O rings while I'm in there so I'm ordering them tonight. It will probably be a week or so before I get to trying this. Bowen, let me know how it goes, if you get to it first.

 

[bowen]

I'm near certain you can order spherical rod ends from NAPA or from Grainger.

:update
I got the thing off and cleaned up. Case wants $28 ea for these little rascals.
The are Alinabal USA # KF-4 which are fairly cheap built rod ends.
Those are 1/4-28 jam nuts and the rod end has female threads.
All RH 1/4-28 threads and I found them at Motion Industries for $ 2.20 Ea



These are still working but the joints are worn so that it has a good bit of loose motion.:roll
My "neutral knotch" is often not really neutral which is a tad unsafe.

 

[bowen]

The are Alinabal USA # KF-4 which are fairly cheap built rod ends.

Do NOT order this part number. I got them but they are missing the mounting stud. KFS-4-GR would work but hard to locate.
A better choice would be McMaster # 60645K421 maybe. They are $4.55 EA.
These I got will work with a bolt but it's not the best option.

 

[bowen]

My problem at the moment is finding one of these for less than $62 from Case.
It's Case Part # D141486 (old # D91440)


It's the thumb button for the shuttle solenoid.
I did find this one on Ebay, but it's the same price with shipping added.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CASE-Push-B...&otn=4&po=LVI&ps=63&clkid=5304596585929998986

I can short across these 2 wires and I hear the large solenoid moving so I actually think my solenoid may be OK.
The floor switch is hanging down broken, and I am going to replace this with an Omron # Z-15GQ55-B. (~$18)
This will reqiire a new 1/2" hole drilled in the floor plate to mount the switch, but Case wants some outrageous price for all the parts for a new floor switch.

 

[trevor b]

i have one if i can find it i will look and see tb

 

[rbmiles1]

So I have a dumb question, that switch is missing on my machine but I have seen it in the parts catalog, what is is for? Is it to disengage the shuttle while loading?

 

[alrman]

So I have a dumb question, that switch is missing on my machine but I have seen it in the parts catalog, what is is for? Is it to disengage the shuttle while loading?

Exactly, I have never found an aftermarket source for them - always fitted genuine - if anyone can find one I'm sure bowen will.

 

[bowen]

How do you delete a srrewed up post?

 

[bowen]

Exactly, I have never found an aftermarket source for them - always fitted genuine - if anyone can find one I'm sure bowen will.

Ha! Well, not just yet. Bulgin in the UK make a very similar switch but it's only rated 2 amps DC. (# MP0042/3 ~ $9.00)
http://www.bulgin.co.uk/Products/Switches/documents/16mmStainlessSwitch.pdf

My solenoid is about 2.5 Ohms and it pulls right at 4 amps energized per my Fluke meter.
So I need the switch to be rated 4-10 amps and hadrly any I have found are this heavy.

This switch says it's manufactured by Case but it's hard to believe I can't find one.
BTW alrman, what I really do for a living is build industrial electrical control panels.

I may just buy the one from Case if I can't find some other part numbers to research.

And the button is wired in parallel with the floor foot switch for the clutch; it does the same thing as the thumb button.
View attachment SHUTTLE_SOLENOID.pdf

 

[GWS]

Can you mount a small relay somewhere and use a lower rated switch that easier to find?

 

[bowen]

D141486 Switch & a hugh wrench.

Can you mount a small relay somewhere and use a lower rated switch that easier to find?

Well that would be easy to wire if I could get a sealed relay down underneath somehow. But for now I have a lead on the correct switch and will know more later.
I have contacted a foreign place that shows the exact same switch, but they have not responded with prices.
Even if I find the Case switch cheap, I may have to buy a butt-load of them, which I don't need unless several of you need 1 or 2 and want to join the party.

I wonder how much these switches cost in Auckland NZ? I have a son-in-law on the way there now to stay 2 weeks on a vacation with family.
I could send him by the Case place to get me a thumb switch, if the price was cheap enough.

My problem with the control valve at the moment is that I dont have any wrenches big enough for the large solenoid. That thing has a brace underneath that is in the way for almost any kind of tool.
A pipe wrench seem no good, and it would take a powerful long deep well socket.:crazy
My linkage is off at the moment.
Do I need to put the linkage back on to screw off the large solenoid? I think the lever provides the stop, but I don't want to break something off up in the shuttle by twisting the solenoid.
Can you put a pipe wrench on the solenoid housing vs. the bolt area? I don't know if this is a tin can or a piece of cast iron...

I have a local mechanic that is suppose to be coming to help me with this, but he is about the most undependable dude I know; I don't think he likes coming out on service calls.
It could be spring before he shows up.

The dipstick also need a fairly large wrench that I may have but I have not found it yet. It's at least 1.5". I did get the hose clamp off the top side of the dipstick tube.:tong

I don't have any oil in the shuttle at the moment because I am waiting to get these seals replaced.
I do have the pan all back on and sealed up but I hope nothing will rust inside the housing with no oil in it.
Also because of this I have not cranked it in several days to check my new battery box installation etc.
We have had some pretty cool nights here already and it's supposed to be down to about 16 degrees the next 2 nights.