580e kingpin questions

[Birdseye]

Hi

A couple of questions about repairs to the kingpin on a rwd case 580e:

- Do you always buy the entire kit with pin and bearings, or is it possible to re-use the pin?

- should I just assume it’s going to need lots of heat and a press to remove the king pin and not waste my time trying shortcuts to remove the pin with axle beam on the tractor, Does the KP ever come out easily?

- is it common practice to put a new bearing in even though there has been some wear in the steering knuckle casting from hours of operation without a bearing or does worn area have to be built up and re machined ?

- if KP grease cover is intact do you assume everything is fine with the bearings or should I remove the top and bottom covers to inspect the bearings?

the pics below show top-view, side and bottom-view of the axle with the bad bearings. The others side has the KP cover in place so I cannot see if the bearings are good.

Thanks a lot !

 

[Coy Lancaster]

Hi Birdseye welcome to HEF. I think it's always a good idea to get the kit and replace everything. Usually the kp freezes up in the steering hub and is a bugger to get out so heat and a press is handy to have. As wore as the axle housing is I wouldn't chance just putting in a new bearing because you'll be right back into it again. I always removed both caps to make it easier to remove kp with hammer and driver. Also you'll probably find the lower bearing is damaged as well. By the way you may have to have the axle align bored and snap ring groove cut back in it.

 

[Birdseye]

uggh, I was afraid of that answer (align bore). Taking off the front axle beam, transporting same to the machine shop and paying 90/hr for them to muscle the beam into position for machining, sounds very expensive. I know you are right, this is the no BS way to properly do the repair. Having said that, I was hoping that I could perform the same with some careful weld filling and file work to achieve about the same effect of restoring the support for the bearing where the knuckle has been worn. Do you think this is reasonable or am I dreaming ?

Heat , driver, sledge hammers , I got these but do not have a press. The service manual shows removal with a driver and a hand sledge so I'll give that a go.

Will order the complete kit with KP and bearings etc.

Thanks !

 

[melben]

When you get it apart you will find the axle housing will have places where the kingpin has worn back into it probably top and bottom, as others have stated, it will have to be repaired for a good seat for the needle bearings, have seen way to many of those, most places (areas) have a machine shop capable of the repair. Get the complete kit, you will see why once you have the kingpin out and everything is inspected

 

[alrman]

For machines that are not used very regularly, & to keep repair costs down, I have done the weld up & grind repair trick - but not to install the torrington bearing, as you can't get the hole true enough for the bearing to work properly.
Instead of using the bearing, I had some hi tensile bushings fabricated with some grease passage swirls on the ID. (only good if the operator actually greases it on a regular basis )
They cope with a little irregularity in the repair of the parent bore & after press fitting them, you can tune the ID of the bush a little with an emery wheel that is slightly smaller than the ID to allow the king pin to slide through nice & slick

It takes a little time, but if you have some welding skills & a good eye, it shouldn't be a problem.

I should say I use high percentage nickel welding rods to weld the axle - they are VERY pricey - but they work well as a filler with the cast axle material & the welds remain soft & easy to work with when grinding.

I'd only do this repair for machines that are played with a few hours a week. If you intend to move copious amounts of dirt with the loader, it might pay to do it all at a machine shop......

But first! You need to get that king pin out of that spindle!

 

[Coy Lancaster]

You might think about finding a good used axle also.

 

[mitch504]

When my brother was a mechanic in a paper mill they had a bunch of these that they couldn't keep the thrust bearings in. He cut some blocks of HDPE and turned them to the size of the thrust bearing, then installed them instead. They lasted way longer than the OEM bearings.

 

[Birdseye]

Probably this backhoe won’t see a whole lot of use so alternate solutions may be a reasonable path but I will make some inquiries about having a machine shop do the align bore.

For a temporary fix any bushing hammered down around the KP would be better than the metal to metal contact that’s happening now.

McMaster Carr may have a bushing off the shelf I can use for around the KP although there is still the issue of the missing thrust bearings.

ok this gives me the idea of what it’s going to take to repair it the right way and some alternative short term fixes.
Thanks.

 

[Delmer]

Regular mild steel will make a serviceable bushing for a hardened shaft, as long as it's kept greased. If you want to use any pipe you have laying around, there are tricks to make it fit without a lathe.

 

[Birdseye]

Delmer, if you have a moment, please tell about those tricks

thanks

 

[Delmer]

Simplest is if you find a pipe that will work for wall thickness, but it to big or to small in diameter, you can cut a section out along the length, pound it roughly to shape and pound it into place. If slightly too small diameter, cut section longer than required, cut spiral and compress the ends, then reweld the outside of the joint and grind smooth.

It's not to hard to adjust the wall thickness a little by sanding, grinding, or upsetting.

 

[Welder Dave]

A split tension bushing may work but you'd likely have to enlarge the hole a little. Hole wouldn't have to be perfectly round and they generally don't require grease. I used them to fix the swing post on my backhoe. Several brands of them available.

CONNEX - Spring Bushings & Pins (connexusa.com)

 

[Tinkerer]

I have made bushings out of heavy wall pipe. It can be purchased in a variety of wall thicknesses.
Here is one of many on-line vendors.
https://www.metalsdepot.com/steel-products/steel-round-tube-dom

 

[Birdseye]

The pipe sleeve-bushing sounds like the short term ticket to stop the damage to the bore in the axle beam casting. Time to start looking for pipe that will fit into the bore and around the pin. It would be easier for getting the fit right if I had it all apart but probably I can take the measurements while its in place and drive the bushing down and around the KP (and same for lower bushing. Its not a perfect long term, low maintenance solution but for my needs this is perfect. I do have access to a metal lathe and can do simple operations with it.

This minimal approach above does ignore replacing the thrust bearings, would you advise to at least take it apart and replace the KP and thrust bearings, cap, zerk etc along with my diy pipe bushing?

 

[Tinkerer]

Having access to a lathe certainly makes it easier.
Consider bedding the the new bushing in Belzona or a similar product. Otherwise the oblong hole in the axle will shorten the life of your repair.
I think it depends on how much time and money that you want to spend on a temporary fix as opposed to doing it the right and long lasting way.
I would definitely have someone that does line boring a call first.

 

[shopguy]

Wonder why its always the left side?

 

[Birdseye]

Following up….

I found on good ‘ol McMaster Carr the perfect sized bushing (they call it a bearing) made of oil embedded steel for $27 delivered. I lightly tapped that in with some 90w oil and will make a rain cover for it. That should minimize any further damage until a proper repair can be done.

For the record the part is

“
High-Load Oil-Embedded 863 Sleeve Bearing
for 2" Shaft Diameter and 2-3/8" Housing ID, 1-1/8" Long”

 

[Tinkerer]

Thanks for the update and info.