580ck shuttle/converter

[Phil]

Sam,
I don't think you need to read my PM, you have it down pat. I will post the pictures of the 2 new, upper, later gaskets I have, tomorrow, so you should be able to tell which ones you have. Phil

 

[racerx]

Phil,

 

[racerx]

Phil, thanks for your reply.

 

[tloft]

i have a mid 60,s 580 deisel that i got 3 months ago...

I will second what phil said sam, you presented your experiences very well .. it was easy to understand & follow without having to be an expert.

Tom

 

[Phil]

Sam,
Here they are, top gasket A38030 and middle gasket A38029. Used starting serial # 8314666.

I'm going to phone in an order Monday for A37545 and A37544, used prior to serial # 8314666, so I have them in stock, and can post a picture of them when they arrive, Sam. Phil

 

[BeanV]

I just purchase a580ck (1969) with the same problem..
Please keep up the dialog. Both of you have given me a lot
of information helping me solve my problem...

 

[samk]

phil, the gaskets that i took off align with the pictures that you posted i.e. a38030 and a38029 plus they do seem to align with the valve assembly etc. but this does not agree with the assembly number a38032 that you tracked down and seem to be affiliated with the other 2.. in any case if i have not said it thank you so much for all your help sam

 

[Phil]

Sam,
Your welcome. However, the fact that you lose all pressure in the converter charge lines, when the clutch pedal is depressed, using the late gaskets, does not make sense. Do you have one or 2 springs behind your shuttle pressure regulator valve? I still believe your machine is before serial # 8314666.

I ordered those 2 early gaskets today, numbers were good. Should have them by Wednesday.

Sometimes a machine serial # is stamped under the metal decal. Check again where the serial # plate used to be. I am not sure if a CK has it located the same place as a B, on the right side of the steering column, just below the hand throttle I believe. Phil

 

[samk]

i have 2 springs behind the shuttle pressure valve and i did again check where the serial # should be and all i have is 2 holes where the revits used to be sam

 

[Phil]

Sam,
I wonder what kind of pump pick-up tube you have, I see the early one has a goose neck in it. Posting picture of the late one, early picture on page 1.

I'm not sure what to tell you at this point, short of trying the 2 early gaskets in it. Phil

 

[samk]

hi phil, well as you know i pulled the top two plates off the bottom adapter of the 580 and lined everythying up with my case manual and i am 99% sure that they are the correct gaskets, i then proceeded to blow out every opening that there was and put 3 shims in front of the shuttle valve and the results with the motor warm are as follow;;shuttle pressure with shuttle in neutral and clutch engaged is 200[was 150], shuttle pressure with clutch depressed is 0{was0] ,shuttle pressure with clutch engaged in fwd is 140 [was 80],shuttle pressure with clutch engaged and in rev, is 120 [was 70], converter pressure with shuttle in either fwd or rev. with clutch engaged is 35 and -the really strange thing now is that it sits at 35-38 with the clutch disengaged. i am beginning to think now that i may have to look at shuttle seals to get pressure up to 170-190 what do you thinkk sam

 

[Phil]

Sam,
Yes I think you are losing oil in the shuttle clutch pack somewhere, but these "really strange things" keep coming up. One last attempt to determine if you have A37546, A38031, A38300, or A38434 valves. A37546 is the machine pre serial # 8314666 valve. All use the same pressure regulator valve, but only A37546 uses a different flow spool. It actually looks different with only 2 machined lands instead of 3. CNH shows it updating, I believe, to the later spool valve, if you want to order a new one. This is on page 101C.

Look at your flow spool( the one the clutch pedal moves) and see if it has 2 lands(A37551-early) or 3(A38033-late), see the attached picture for the difference in appearance. My manual shows oil flowing differently around these 2 different flow spools, possibly giving either a charged or uncharged converter with the clutch pedal down. Phil

 

[samk]

phil, i have the a38033 valve and it does have the 3 lands.am going to pull the shuttle out tomorrow, weather permitting. do you have any tips on what i should be looking for? sam

 

[Phil]

Sam,
I picked up the early upper valve gaskets today and they are different. If you pull the shuttle out, post a picture of it, so I know which one you have. Note if there is any wear in the bore of the torque tube where the 3 sealing rings run. Does your service manual show a break-down of the shuttle unit or dis-assembly instructions? Phil

 

[elcactus]

Sam,
Yes I think you are losing oil in the shuttle clutch pack somewhere, but these "really strange things" keep coming up. One last attempt to determine if you have A37546, A38031, A38300, or A38434 valves. A37546 is the machine pre serial # 8314666 valve. All use the same pressure regulator valve, but only A37546 uses a different flow spool. It actually looks different with only 2 machined lands instead of 3. CNH shows it updating, I believe, to the later spool valve, if you want to order a new one. This is on page 101C.

Look at your flow spool( the one the clutch pedal moves) and see if it has 2 lands(A37551-early) or 3(A38033-late), see the attached picture for the difference in appearance. My manual shows oil flowing differently around these 2 different flow spools, possibly giving either a charged or uncharged converter with the clutch pedal down. Phil

Hi Phil,
I have a 580B ser. # 8727034 I am looking for the gaskets you keep talking about. One for the top valve and one for the lower plate. From me reading your posts here it looks like I need part #'s A380029 and A380030 is this correct?
Thanks.

 

[samk]

hi phil, yes my manual does cover assembly and disassembly and as soon as i get it out i will send you a picture. as i have not worked on one before it will be a slow methodical process and your experience will be invaluable. my dad used to say that most, if not all good decisons are the result of experience, but that sometimes that experience comes as the result of a real screwup. i am still a bit confused as to where these 3 sealing rings are in the torque tube is it possible that i could get a part # or whatever so i can nail iy down in my parts book.. thanks again sam

 

[Phil]

Sam,
I see the 3 main shaft sealing rings are only shown as a kit(of 3), on CNH, part # is A43258. Shown in the picture as #38.

Elcactus,
You will need the adapter housing gasket also, the bottom gasket, if you take the large adaptor plate off, part #A37517. Along with the top gasket A38030 and the middle gasket A38029, you should have the converter regulator valve gasket #G46824.

The 2 pump seals should be replaced if you take the large adaptor plate off, part #A7075. Phil

 

[elcactus]

Thanks Phil,
I just ordered the parts. The problem I am having is trans oil is coming out around the bolt head near the fitting/line that goes to trans pressure guage. I hope its only a gasket.

 

[samk]

well phil , finally got a chance to get back at the old 580 and got the tractor separated today i have checked my manual and it states to wire the shuttle together and apply pressure at the front to ease it out. mine appears to slide easily for about an inch and then goes hard. the manual makes no mention of removing the rear gear on the countershaft, but there is probably something really stupid that i am missing any ideas sam. p.s. as soon as i get it out i will send photos

 

[Phil]

Sam,
Good weather for working, not too hot. I don't remember ever having a summer this cool. Only had the central air on twice this year, so far.

Remove the countershaft gear, it comes off easy, just note which way it goes back on. The shuttle assembly will then slide right out the back. The rear drum just slides on the back of the shuttle assembly....so either pull it off first(note the thrust bearing components) or with the assembly.

Note the shims on the transmission shaft, and leave them there if you wish. They control shuttle assembly end play.

Attached a picture of the Rockwell shuttle, note the bands around the notched drums. If your shuttle doesn't look like this one you have my condolences. Phil