580ck dont move until warm ???

[onemank6]

I bought this 580ck in the spring and it didnt move at all. I tore it down and found a busted keyway for the shuttle pump fixed that and it moves now and has worked all summer but i have kinda questioned if the clutches are slipping or not now that its getting cold outside it dont move until it gets good and warm. After it warms up it does move but its almost like its slipping (same as it has done all summer) it always shows in the green on the clutch pressure guage even when cold. I have read something about shimming a pressure relief valve or pressure regulator for the torque convertor so i have been curious to know if this could be the problem or not. Any ideas on this would be great.thanks

 

[chiptoomey]

xpackdeals - I have a 68 580bck - I had the same problem and for the longest time couldn't figure it out. I finally changed the intake tube for the shuttle pump and instantly fixed the problem. The fine mesh filter on the intake was thoroughly clogged. Once I changed to a tube with a course screen on it, my problem disappeared.

Also, though it is difficult, this fix can be done without removing the loader...gas tank and steering column have to be moved or removed, but it is doable.

 

[onemank6]

I checked min out when i replaced the key for the shuttle pump as i had it tore down then anyway and mine was really clean i also checked the tube itself for pin holes and all seemed ok.I was pretty watchfull of inspecting everything as i put it back together.That is why im wondering about the torque conv pressure shimming.Thanks for the help

 

[SineWave]

Xpackdeals,

Did you get this problem straightened out? My old 580CK does the same thing...won't move when cold, but as it warms up, it has more and more power.

The man I bought it from said to lift the rear wheels off the ground, put it in 3rd gear, push the shuttle lever forward, and watch for the wheels to start turning as it warmed up. That sounded like a heck of a way to run a railroad to me, so I called the Case dealer and he said almost the exact same thing. He said he heard from old-timers that they would start up the machine, lift the rear wheels, put it in gear, then go back inside and eat breakfast and by the time they were done eating, the machine would be ready to work.

Chiptoomey - Is it a big job to get out the shuttle pump intake tube? I have a service manual on the way but don't have it yet...

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Bill Smith]

We had to do the exact same thing on our old CK for years . Once warmed up away you go . We sat in the truck and had our coffee . Did not have much faith in an outrigger letting go if you know what i mean.

 

[onemank6]

Sine ............I now have it to the point where it does move better when its cold but it is still doggy from what i have read the cks and the b's are notorious for being sluggish at best....The screen on the pickup tube is a pita to get to i removed my fuel tank and the spacer pipe between the loader to get to mine ......

I think from what your describing with yours that i would drain the shuttle oil and put the case brand oil back in it also change the shuttle oil filter which may help but i wouldnt loose a lot of sleep over it needing to warmup before it moves i have rebuilt and resealed my shuttle and torque converter and it didnt make a major difference .......

 

[SineWave]

Thanks Xpack and Bill. I will try draining the shuttle oil and shuttle filter...hopefully my service manual will cover this.

If this machine is running right, after it's warmed up, do you guys think I will be able to drag big heavy (24"-30" diameter) logs with it? Do these machines with torque converter and shuttle have a lot of pulling power? I would have preferred a dry clutch but got a deal on this machine...

 

[onemank6]

Sine............You shouldnt have any problem dragging that size log but you will need them to cut down some you wont be able to drag the whole tree ........I cut wood on my property for my boiler and theres some that are pretty big and if i hook onto one thats to big i just cut it down some ..........And to be honest with you i try to cut them into about 10 ft lengths and scoop them into the bucket sideways and drive them to the pile these things have some real lift power and you will absolutely want the backhoe on as they dont get any traction without it ...Another thing to watch for is be real careful with the rear end lifting one of my neighbors has a 580b and he was down in a little hole trying to back out and the rear tires were hopping up and down making and breaking traction and it tore out the ring and pinion gears in the rear end......oouch......

As far as changing the oil and filter there are 2 plugs under the torque tube thereis one under the bellhousing toward the front and one right behind it towards the middle those 2 are the drains for the shuttle oil there is one at the rear end that is for the rearend oil.....
The filter is located in front of the radiator left side if your setting on the tractor it is in a filter housing and there are 4 bolts on the top of the housing that you remove to access the filter make sure you keep your o ring incase your new filter dont have a new oring...........

If you need any help just let us know...........

Heres a pic of the oil filter housing it is orange on the right side


Here is the link to my rebuild you will find some good stuff in there when you have time to read it...........
https://www.heavyequipmentforums.co...ery&highlight=580ck+gets+her+name+and+surgery

 

[thepumpguysc]

WOW X-pack, That thing looks like a show piece.. NICE..
Jeff.. Don't give it "A SECOND THOUGHT".. the freekin thing is 40 yrs old.. Lol

 

[onemank6]

Thanks pumpguy

And Jeff i second pumpguys suggestion the dont give it a second thought or you may find yourself 40 years older hahahahah

 

[SineWave]

Thanks, Xpack and ThePumpGuySC ... that's good to know. I just bought a new filter for that front filter housing last week, and one for the main hydraulic system (filter is up high and on the right near the driver's seat on mine), which has an aluminum threaded-on housing that I needed a 36" pipe wrench to unscrew...once I pulled both filters, though, I noticed that the oil looked milky so I decided to change the oil first ... but then I got fouled up on my "injector pump leak" adventure...

I appreciate all the help...you guys are great!

Jeff

 

[onemank6]

Sine........Yea you got water in the oil if its milky and if you have it in both the shuttle and hyd oil you need to do as you suggested and change them both ..........If you have to store this outside its best to cover it with tarps when your done with it .....

The shifter boot is where i hear about water getting into the tranny which is a 80-90 gear oil you may want to look at that as well if it was outside with the previous owner and not covered then thats probably how it got in there...........

There is a member on here goes by the name 1968 580ck and he has to leave his outside and he tarps the crap out of it including the backhoe ........Its got to be a pita but if it keeps the water out its got to be worth it.............As a matter of fact he is from Virginia to ...........

 

[El Hombre]

On a regular automatic transmission there are 'apply pistons' that pressurized oil pushes to apply the clutches. On the piston is a lip seal made of some kind of synthetic rubber, the seal prevents the oil from leaking past the piston. When the seal gets 10 or 15 years on it, the hot oil cooked the rubber so it's more like a potato chips, brittle, instead of soft and flexible. So it won't seal very well. Letting the trans warm up softens the seal and it starts to work like it should.

I think most of the shuttle trannys have a clutch pack with an apply piston set up, and the piston seal is not working when cold.

 

[onemank6]

El Hombre ........These are like you said there is a piston that pushes the clutch packs together but the seals are actually like piston rings made out of steel not rubber ........I tore mine apart and resealed it and it did improve my clutch pressure but theres not a major improvement on it moving for some reason these ck's and the b's are just doggy like that .....Im not sure why but would love to know im beginning to believe it is just something you have to live with if you own one of these..........Just the nature of the beast.....

 

[SineWave]

Thanks, Xpack and El Hombre. I heard that before about tarping this machine...guess I'll have to figure something out that will stand up to the wind here near the coast.

 

[El Hombre]

xpackdeals, is there a test port on that shuttle housing that you could put a gauge on and see what kind of pressures you're getting? Most automatics will have a couple of test ports on the case for diagnosis....

 

[onemank6]

Yea elhombre .......theres actually a clutch pressure gauge in the dash that shows the shuttle pressure if good it runs between 170-190 mine was 180 before resealing but now its 190 and mine still doesnt move great .......I do wonder about the torque converter i have been told it is like a fluid coupler is it possible the torque converter could be slipping somehow i did resealmy torque converter to but im just not that familiar as to what the torque converter is doing exacly...........

 

[ijoker]

Hi guys! I'm coming in a little late on the discussion, but that's ok. I just wanted to say that I have a 580b. Mine is also a ck. Which simply means Construction King. Anyway, mine has the same problem when it is cold outside. I have to let it warm up anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes depending how cold it is before it will move full power. It is just something that I have learned to live with. When it is warm outside.......... No problem! Start up and go! I have not tried to do anything about it. From what you guys have been talking, it sounds like a pain to try to fix with little results. There was a guy on here back in 2011 by the name of Phil. He is very knowlegeable. Where ever he is. I remember him saying that it is just a normal thing with these machines. It was poor design by Case. So those of us that have the pleasure of owning one, just have to deal with it. So go ahead and start her up, have breakfast, or a cup of coffeee and let her warm up! Cheers!

 

[El Hombre]

Yea elhombre .......theres actually a clutch pressure gauge in the dash that shows the shuttle pressure if good it runs between 170-190 mine was 180 before resealing but now its 190 and mine still doesnt move great .......I do wonder about the torque converter i have been told it is like a fluid coupler is it possible the torque converter could be slipping somehow i did resealmy torque converter to but im just not that familiar as to what the torque converter is doing exacly...........

Nothing in a torque convertor that is heat sensitive; all metal. The oil is being flung by the rotation of the convertor to push against the impellor and move the tranny input shaft.

Do a web search on torque convertor, it's way too complicated to describe in a post.

 

[onemank6]

Thanks Elhombre i will look it up