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580c Inection Pump rebuild

C

candor

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
15
Location
canada
roosa master stanadyne JDB debris inside

Hi GWS,

I have the same fuel injection pump JDB roosa master.
I found the same debris inside.
From where these debris could come!
Could you tell me what part or parts are making the problem!
Just a little fuel is coming out from the injectors because
The fuel path is clogged with debris.
This stanadyne pump is on john deere engine 4219 df
that drive a sullair compressor 185 cfm.

Any thouhts please!

Thanks
 
G

GWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
154
Location
Oklahoma
candor said:
Hi GWS,

I have the same fuel injection pump JDB roosa master.
I found the same debris inside.
From where these debris could come!
Could you tell me what part or parts are making the problem!
Just a little fuel is coming out from the injectors because
The fuel path is clogged with debris.
This stanadyne pump is on john deere engine 4219 df
that drive a sullair compressor 185 cfm.

Any thouhts please!

Thanks
Click to expand...

If it looks like dark sand grains it will be from the flex ring. The pump can usually be rebuilt with a 30.00 (US) kit that can be purchased from several places on the internet. It does take some work to tear apart the pump but it really is not that hard to do if you take some photos as you go and make note of how the parts came out so they can be put back in the same way. I would go for the newer flex ring that is a solid unit and you won't have to worry about it doing the same thing a few years down the road. Cost a little more but it is worth it and easier to replace. The flex ring is a bit of a pain to get installed on the rivets. Check everything closely and replace or fix anything that shows wear or damage. Be sure to thoroughly clean the pump body passages and parts of all the junk from the flex ring. Blow compressed air through every hole you can find to make sure it is clear.

Be sure to rotate the engine so the timing marks line up on the injection pump BEFORE you take the pump off and then don't move the engine while the pump is off. Then you don't have to worry about timing the pump when you put it back on. Line up the timing marks in the pump timing window, slide the pump on and then rotate the pump left or right if needed to line the marks up and you are ready to go.
 
I

idigidaho

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Idaho
I put a few seals on the throttle shaft a year ago to fix a leak, all was fine till I ran it out of fuel one day. I thought I had everything bled good but couldn't explain the rough running that started so had hoped that would be the problem. Have an occasional leak from the bottom of the pump but it's pretty rare. Sorry to lead your thread away.
 
G

GWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
154
Location
Oklahoma
idigidaho said:
Should a guy pull the injectors and have someone test them first off?
Click to expand...

There are others on here that can offer way more knowledge about troubleshooting the fuel system than I can. What little I have encountered with rough running diesels are air getting in the fuel line, rust from the fuel tank or a plugged up air filter. I did help a neighbor with his 480C that turned out to be in one of the injectors not spraying right.

You should start a thread and see what other folks have experienced and what they found. They can help you walk it through the troubleshooting.
 
S

Shrmndlit

Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
34
Location
Aiken SC
Occupation
Work for Myself!
Well I have been working hard at the job that currently keeps my many projects going! Anyway, In my opinion anyone who has the time, patience and hates to pay someone for something that you can figure out for your slelf then read all the treads on this topic and get the manual GWS has or I will provide it for you. Once this is done go for it
 
I

idigidaho

Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2011
Messages
8
Location
Idaho
Shrmndlit, could I get a copy of your manual, I bought a copy off ebay a couple years ago, its a poor photocopy though, maybe the one you have has better info? Thanks-
 
S

Shrmndlit

Active Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2012
Messages
34
Location
Aiken SC
Occupation
Work for Myself!
Just sent you a PM. I also bought the one from ebay which was trash compaired to the on Old Man sent me.
 
C

candor

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Messages
15
Location
canada
roosa master stanadyne JDB model

Hi GWS!

I have taken the JDB fuel pump off but without its shaft.
I need a puller tool to extract it.
I have 2 questions for you GWS.
-A- you mentioned in the last email a solid flex ring.
is it just one or several of them that have to checked and replaced if damaged!!!!.

-B- I did not pay attention when I removed the pump from its place.
Now I think I have a problem with timing when installation comes.
How to time both engine and pump from scratch !!!!


Thanks!
 
G

GWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
154
Location
Oklahoma
candor said:
Hi GWS!

I have taken the JDB fuel pump off but without its shaft.
I need a puller tool to extract it.
I have 2 questions for you GWS.
-A- you mentioned in the last email a solid flex ring.
is it just one or several of them that have to checked and replaced if damaged!!!!.

-B- I did not pay attention when I removed the pump from its place.
Now I think I have a problem with timing when installation comes.
How to time both engine and pump from scratch !!!!


Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hopefully the shaft stayed on the engine. You will need to replace the two cup seals and I think an o-ring seal on the shaft when you put the pump back on the shaft. I made a tool to install the cup seals as the shaft has a few ring groves that make getting the seals on without damaging them tricky. You can usually pick up the little plastic tool at diesel shops.

The flex ring replacement is called an EID. (Elastomer Insert Drive) and can be also gotten from a diesel repair shop. Usually around 30.00 to 40.00 dollars US. They can be found on a number of internet places. The repair kit with the normal flex ring runs about 30.00 or less. Since you have to take the pump apart to fix the flex ring, might as well replace all the seals at this time.

There should be a small plate on the right side, back rear of the engine (bell housing) that covers a small hole. It only has one bolt holding it down. Rotate the engine until you see a timing mark appear (Don't use the starter for this). This will put the engine at TDC for timing the pump. Then slide the pump on the shaft and line up the timing marks in the pump window. The pump can rotate in the bolt holes as they are slotted so the marks on the pump will line up. Line those marks up on the pump before you slide it on the shaft. If you don't find a mark on the flywheel through the small hole then you are going to have to remove the valve cover and the number one fuel injection nozzle to set the engine at TDC.

There are several things you will need to check inside the pump so be sure to look everything over closely.
 
C

cuda

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2012
Messages
1
Location
Seattle
Can anyone describe the amount of diesel being pushed back to the tank? I have a JD 4219 that will run then stall then die, I replaced the Injection pump,filters ,lift pump but no change. The return line at the tank kinda just spits fuel while running and I don't know if there should be a steady stream I never looked when it was running good so I have no idea how much fuel should be returning. Thanks
 
G

GWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
154
Location
Oklahoma
cuda said:
Can anyone describe the amount of diesel being pushed back to the tank? I have a JD 4219 that will run then stall then die, I replaced the Injection pump,filters ,lift pump but no change. The return line at the tank kinda just spits fuel while running and I don't know if there should be a steady stream I never looked when it was running good so I have no idea how much fuel should be returning. Thanks
Click to expand...

The amount of fuel that returns to the tank varies with engines, injection pumps, rpm and probably some other factors as well. I am not a diesel mechanic and only know how things work after I have had to repair them.

As for the engine problem, looks like you have replaced the items usually associated with the symptom you are having. I would start looking for something in the tank plugging the fuel line. Does the fuel system have a solenoid that shuts off the fuel? Or you could be sucking air somewhere in the fuel lines. I had that problem on a tractor and it drove me nuts till I found the leak at the fuel filter. Engine would run for a few seconds then start running bad and shut down. Would start right back up but with the same results every time.
 
S

Shooterp314

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
5
Location
Illinois
By chance is there someone on that can tell this newby how to PM someone...need to get a copy of the manual for the pump on this thread.
Thanks!!!
 
G

gpat

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
9
Location
fla
GWS said:
Hopefully the shaft stayed on the engine. You will need to replace the two cup seals and I think an o-ring seal on the shaft when you put the pump back on the shaft. I made a tool to install the cup seals as the shaft has a few ring groves that make getting the seals on without damaging them tricky. You can usually pick up the little plastic tool at diesel shops.

The flex ring replacement is called an EID. (Elastomer Insert Drive) and can be also gotten from a diesel repair shop. Usually around 30.00 to 40.00 dollars US. They can be found on a number of internet places. The repair kit with the normal flex ring runs about 30.00 or less. Since you have to take the pump apart to fix the flex ring, might as well replace all the seals at this time.

There should be a small plate on the right side, back rear of the engine (bell housing) that covers a small hole. It only has one bolt holding it down. Rotate the engine until you see a timing mark appear (Don't use the starter for this). This will put the engine at TDC for timing the pump. Then slide the pump on the shaft and line up the timing marks in the pump window. The pump can rotate in the bolt holes as they are slotted so the marks on the pump will line up. Line those marks up on the pump before you slide it on the shaft. If you don't find a mark on the flywheel through the small hole then you are going to have to remove the valve cover and the number one fuel injection nozzle to set the engine at TDC.

There are several things you will need to check inside the pump so be sure to look everything over closely.
Click to expand...
Newb here but that pump looks just like the one on my JD400, Mine had the same coffee grounds inside too.
I made a "tool" for the shaft seals out of a plastic baggie.Its thin enough to slide in the seal and carefully pull the plastic out.
I have one of the roosamaster seal tool thingys and use the baggie trick instead.
 
S

Shooterp314

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
5
Location
Illinois
Shrmndit,
From reading this thread it seems you have a manual I need for the ip on the ole 580b as mine looks typical with the debris etc. however I am brand new to this thus am limited both by the system and forom knowledge and don'r seem to be able to pm you...?
So am hopeing to somehow get ahold of you and get you to send the pdf which I would appreciate very much!
Thanks !!
Shooterp314
 
S

Shooterp314

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2012
Messages
5
Location
Illinois
GWS,
Could I get you to send me a copy of the manual please?
Not sure how to pm you but you should get an email from me reply to this...I hope and think that I have figured that much out about the forum so far!?
Or if need be I can post my email address on here....
I appreciate your time!!
 
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